The Secrets of the Black Liquid REVEALED

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Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJune 06, 2012

To understand the Secrets of the the contents of the urns/ampules we first have to separate them into their component parts... [Edited 02-12-2012] [u]The Seed[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusE_screencap7.jpg[/img] A genetically engineered substance created by the Engineers, it is stored within the vials found within the urns/ampules. This thick, viscous black liquid which was consumed by the Sacrificial Engineer (the Seeding) and unwittingly by Holloway, has three underlining properties: 1. When ingested by an organism (Sacrficial Engineer/Hollway) the "Seed" combines with the cells of the organism, causing the host organism to break down at a cellular level - every cell of their body becoming a viral genetic mutagen, capable of being consumed by other organisms. 2. This viral genetic mutagen, when ingested by other organisms, adds/replaces genes of that organism with those of the host whom consumed the "Seed", imprinting the hosts DNA/Genome onto an indigenous ecosystem. This viral genetic mutagen also acts as an evolutionary accelerant, exponentially mutating organisms with the genetic template/traits from the host (LV-223 worms). 3. The evolutionary accelerant aspect of the mutagen also has the side effect of revitalizing dead/dying cells, seeming resulting in re-animation (Shaws womb/Fifield). [u]The Black Liquid[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap47.jpg[/img] The black slimy liquid stored within the urns/ampules is NOT the same substance that was stored within the vials, and contrary to my original theoryis NOT the genetic material of the Xenomorph. This substance is an inert transmission medium, that when combined with the Seed creates an oil like substance, making weaponized transmission of the Seed more effective. [u]The Urns/Ampules[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusK_screencap31.jpg[/img] The urns/ampules are medium for storing and deploying both the "Seed" and the transmission medium. When triggered/smashed the "Seed" (see above) and the transmission medium mix, creating an oil like substance, that is more viscous than the Seed, and a more effective means of transmission. [u]The Xenomorph[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap49.jpg[/img] As shown by this mural, the xenomorph is of some importance to the Engineers. Lets look at their known history regards the Xenomorph... - Thousands of years ago, an Engineer craft carrying a cargo of Xenomorph was forced to land on the moon/planetoid LV-426 when its lone pilot unwillingly became host to one of its cargo. It may be that this craft had previosly visited LV-223 and acquired a payload of the urns before deploying them onto a distant planet. Then after acquiring the eggs that would have remained after the infestation befell its fate upon its return either to LV-223 or the Engineers home world/system. - 2000 years ago, a team of Engineers stationed on LV-223 prepared to deploy a cargo of urns/ampules to Earth, when one of them inadvertantly unleashed the contents quarantining the base. As seen in the movie, the urns are the viral deployment method used to instigate a Xenomorph infestation. The urns were designed to ensure safe transport and efficient deployment of the Xenomorph. [u]The Dark Truth - Completely Rethought[/u] Taking what we have learnt about the urns/ampules, their contents and the Engineers established history with the xenomorph, and combining that with what we have seen in the Prometheus and Alien movies, leads us towards a dark, disturbing truth... [b]Phase 1 - The Seeding[/b] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/sacrificial_engineer_prometheus2.jpg[/img] [b]The Engineers visit primordial planets supporting basic, simple life, whereupon a lone "Sacrificial Engineer" ingests the "Seed", sacrificed his life and seeding the planet with the seed and his DNA, resulting in an ecosystem entirely dominated by the Xenomorph (This is what we see at the start of the film).[/b] [b]Phase 2 - The Rebirth[/b] [b]An ecosystem dominated by the Xenomorph results in the exhausting of viable hosts. To combat this the Xenomorph at a genetic level introduced Y chromosome into its genome, giving rise to infertile males (smooth carapaced warriors), and then fertile males (Kings).[/b] [b]Upon consummating with Kings, Queens become capable of producing a second type of egg, incubating a sub-species of hosts, pale skinned humanoids - Engineers.[/b] [b]Phase 3 - The Harvest[/b] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/david_earth.jpg[/img] [b]Systematically a percentage of these Engineers are drafted into Engineer society. Seeking a more efficient means of reproducing the Engineers weaponize the Seed, for deployment upon worlds inhabited by Engineer children, sired before the weaponization of the Seed (the method of this siring not yet seen).[/b] [b]The Xenomorph DNA, hidden with "human DNA" asserts itself and spreads across the sired planets, resulting in a Xenomorph dominated ecosystem. Once all viable hosts are exhausted, the King Xenomorph is sired and Engineers are born.[/b] [b]Phase 3 - Collection[/b] [img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/AlienInfestedWorld.jpg[/img] [b]The Engineers collect a percentage of Xenomorph (eggs) before transporting them to a location whereby they can be used to produce more Seed (also as yet unseen).[/b] [u]Why Create Only To Destroy[/u] [b]Here's a summary of what we know so far...[/b] [b][/b] [b]- A Sacrificial Engineer sacrifices his life, seeding life upon a primordial world, using his own genetic material. To date we the fans have assumed this action, through natural selection and engineering, resulted in billions of clones/children of the Engineer to evolve, in his image - us.[/b] [b]But The consumption of the Seed by Holloway results in the creation of a Xenomorph in the form of the Deacon, therefore we must assume our initial belief to be false - meaning that the Sacrificial Engineer was not siring a planet of life that would evolve into human form, but instead cultivating a world that would be dominated by the Xenomorph.[/b] [b]- The Urns show that the urns are a means to deploy the Xenomorph amongst human races also sired by Engineers, as shown by the DNA match in the movie.[/b] [b]- The Xenomorph extrapolates genetic material from its hosts, propagating its own kind.[/b] [b]- Once all hosts are exhausted, the Xenomorphs would need a means to continue their existence, otherwise they would die, and only their eggs would remain.[/b] [b]- The Engineers return to gather the eggs.[/b] [b][/b] [b]WHY? Why would the Engineers seed a planet to create millions/billions of clones/children in their image and using their own DNA only to later wipe them out using the Xenomorph? Well I believe I may have the answer...[/b] [b][/b] [b]The Xenomorph, as we know it, is capable of eradicating an entire ecosystem of its indigenous population by using said life forms as hosts to propagate its own species. When gestating inside a host, Xenomorph embryos extrapolate genetic material and traits from their host, to add to their own genome and to adapt to the environment and ecosystem which they have been deployed into. It is this trait of the Xenomorph I believe that holds the key...[/b] [u]Genetic Material[/u] [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusO_screencap14.jpg[/img] [b]We, the human race have evolved from and continue to evolve from the Engineers genetic material. Our genetic material, our genome is almost identical to that of the Engineers. This same genetic material is extrapolated by the Xenomorph, a deadly genetic and bio-mechanical creation held in some regard by the Engineers, themselves expertics in genetic and bio-mechanical engineering.[/b] [b][/b] [b][i]To the Engineers the human race are "Maize". Once we have grown to required amount in number and in the required way, we are harvested, and the Xenomorph is the "Harvester".[/i][/b] [b][/b] [b]Our genes/DNA/Genome/genetic material is the "Maize", that is what the Engineers want/need, and the Xenomorph is the means by which to harvest our genetic material. But why?[/b]

w_star
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August 01, 2012

David once said that Shaw's father was died of Ebola... as someone thought that Ebola is a kind of Bio-weapon, I thought the black goo is just simular to Ebola...

Gavin
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August 02, 2012

@ mountaindewbass... Let me try to explain it in simple terms. The urns are made up four components... 1. The Urn - Simply the housing of the weapon. 2. The Slime - Inside the urn (this is the Xenomorph DNA) 3. The Vials - Containers for component number 4... 4. The Seed - Stored in the vials this is the same substance consumed by the Sacrificial Engineer at the start of the movie. ...When the urns are triggered (Shaw and co. entering the chamber) the contents of the vials (Seed) mixes with the slime (DNA) and creates the black liquid that then oozes from the urns. This liquid imprints anything it touches (LV-223 worms for example) with Xenomorph DNA, in the same way that the combination of the Seed and the Sacrificial Engineer imprinted his DNA onto life on ancient Earth. Now some have said that the substance that pours from the urns is the black slime, this is not the case - look at the images above, when David extracts the device holding the vials they are coated in a black slime/mucus, and the substance that David places on his finger is more congealed/coagulated. But what pours out of the urns when they are triggered and what covers the floor when Fifield and Milburn return to the room is more of a black oil. Neither the contents of the urn, nor the vials have an oily viscosity, thus the only logical deduction would be that the oily substance is a combination of the two substances. If you are still struggling with the concept think of the liquid bomb shown in Die Hard With A Vengeance.

snellhest
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August 11, 2012

everybody seem to forget something about the proto-xeno and that is in alien when it bursts out from john hurt ist small and isnt evolved like a bit after the burst that may be the same case here!

SubsumeYou
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August 11, 2012

Thank you, SnorkelBottom, absolutely fascinating theory you present. Thank you.

SubsumeYou
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August 11, 2012

Your assumptions, Emme, are naive and, sadly, disappointingly typical.

SubsumeYou
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August 11, 2012

The xenos are not Gods, to the one who suggested as such. A God is a thoughtful being that creates and shares. The xenos, I will say right now, are not thoughtful. They are on the level of animals.

BigDave
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August 12, 2012

I believe that the Black Goo in the Urns could indeed be a Bio Weapon, but it would be a very peculiar one. You see from what i have seen these Urns are as ampules and they contain this substance and it appears that this substance when it comes into interaction with a Organism it does not kill the Organism, it upgrades them both physically and mentally. By that it mutates the Organisms Genes so that it takes on traits of a Xeno and thus changes the Organism into a Hybrid Organism that has Xeno traits but also evolves and improves certain aspects/traits of the original Organism. The level of this mutation depends on the amount of black goo the organism comes into contact with and how it comes into contact with it. My reasons for this are... we do not see what becomes of Holloway we can only assume, and so we get no proof that he was having the same affect as the Sacrificial Engineer. We do see that Holloway gets Shaw Pregnant while he is infected with a small amount of the black substance, we can only assume that the substance first affected his genes slowly but enough to affect and mutate his sperm. His Sperm then was able to fertilize Shaws none defective Eggs. The Embryo being a simple form of life (all mammals, reptiles, birds and fish have a similar near identical stage 1 embryo) Thus this embryo only has basic mammal genetics and thus has less Human DNA to rewrite. Thats how the Embryo mutated into the Squid which is very similar to the Face Hugger. Its assumed that those worms we saw that could have been brought in from outside by the crew; mutated into the Hammerpede which again mutated the worms into larger organisms that carried again some Xeno traits but also kept some worm traits. Next we have Fifield, now he gets a lot of Black Goo on his face... but forget the Fifield we saw... look at the many concept works only a few looked like Toxic Avenger Fifield, the others looked more Alien, you could see Xeno DNA in them but none in mutant Fifield. Why? Well if Ridley wanted to save the Xeno DNA until the Shaws Baby vs Engineer and then Face Hug (Body Hug) Scene and resulting Deacon Chest Buster. Maybe thats a good enough reason for him to cut out the Alien DNA looking Fifield and go with more bland mutant Toxic Avenger Fifield. Maybe the same as we really never see much of the Hammerpede or what becomes of its victims. Again purely on my part i think it was to edit and leave out Alien DNA until the Shaw Baby and its attack and implanting of Embryo in the Engineer scenes. So if we consider that Fifield was originally going to look more Xeno DNA than Elephant man (Joseph Merrick). I have come to this conclusion. The Xeno was a Organism that they may had used as a Bio Weapon, its use was simple, deploy the Xeno Eggs and watch as they hatch Face Huggers who then implant Xeno Embryo on its targets, these Embryos grown into Chest Busters who then grow into Xenos which take on some traits of its Host. The Xeno is deadly and also a very hard Bio Weapon to contain and control. What if the Engineers then found a way to use the Xeno well change it to something that can still be used as a Bio Weapon but one that can be contained and stored more easy. Surely breaking down the Xeno DNA and storing them in Urns are a much easier and safer way to contain and store a Bio Weapon? But how do they do that? This brings me back to the Sacrificial Engineer, the substance he had taken did not mutated him it broke down his DNA but did so in a way that his DNA then diluted into water and may had then either mutated into basic life forms and building blocks of life on Earth.... or maybe mutated basic life forms on Earth so they evolve into Organisms that carried some DNA and traits of the Engineer Race. I propose that the Goo the Engineer drank was not the same as what was in the Urns. I believe that they used the same process that broke down the Sacrificial Engineers DNA to break down the Xenos DNA, but where as the Engineers DNA escaped into the Water Fall, the Xenos was collected into the Urns and maybe also mixed with some other chemical that helps to store and hibernate the DNA and maybe helps it Evolve and Mutate at a quicker cycle of Evolution than that of the Engineers DNA.. Unless the Xenos DNA mutated and evolves at a much faster rate anyway (likely). This is what i feel the Black Goo is.... broken down Xeno DNA for a safer way to store and deploy the Xeno Bio Weapon and also have more varied use. Maybe they never created the Xeno, but they came across it and wished to use its DNA to be used as a Weapon or to create new Organisms with Xeno traits. I also think this is what the Space Jockey Suits are, they are Bio Suits, whose purpose it to prevent contamination of the Black Goo and maybe protect them from the Black Goo but not any accidentally created organisms via the Goo. Remember the Urns only appeared to activate and leak once some of the crew had taken of their helmets and their breathing affected the atmosphere of the room and caused the Urns to leak. This is why the Engineers wear those suits.... as they could breath outside for at least a short period with them off (The Engineer got from his crashes Juggernaut to the Lifeboat to attack Shaw without a mask). Also why wear those suits in the Ghost Engineer scene, when the Human Crew could walk around without them as there was oxygen in that part of the temple and the Juggernaut.

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Mala'kak
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August 13, 2012

^^Great post. I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you mentioned about the goo. The fact that Fifield was originally going to mutate into some hybrid-like alien creature is a huge clue that the goo is based on xeno DNA; and can transform people into monsters if they're infected the right way. It breaks things down and disintegrates them to change the entity, and it can mutate whole organisms in different ways to directly hybridize them. It seems like it's gonna be analogous to the breakdown and reforming of civilizations over time, as well as companies. Connecting to the themes like the inevitable changing of leadership. When a new king steps up to the throne. It seems like the goo can be used in multiple ways like the fire talked about in the Prometheus myth. It can either completely disintegrate the life-form that ingests it to create new life from local elements or it hybridizes things with the xeno DNA that has been altered in its own way in an attempt to control the fire. The engineers had the fire, were playing with it, and got burnt. In a metaphoric way it could be used to create tools, to cook/use as a light source etc. OR it can be used to make war, and weapons of war. Zeus becomes angry with Prometheus because the humans now have the ability to make war. So, he punishes Prometheus, and some of the humans who were now living in a paradise/garden with some of the early Engineer kings. A garden that Prometheus/the true gods set up for us and was destroyed by the other Elders/the kings... The engineers survive the destruction and slither out of the garden into the stars. They become more warlike and take the fire with them to launch a war against their creators/our mutual fathers. They've now tried to involve us in their war against the creators through devious means by leading us to knowledge while holding another goal in mind. They're our older brothers who are jealous of us and want to make us a weapon of war against our creators/fathers. Giving a lot more meaning to David's own desire to rebel and kill the father/king. The leader at the top of the hierarchy. Earth, and the other Engineer created worlds, have been punished by the true gods many times in the past... with the bioweapons, and with multiple floods/ice-ages noted by archaeologists. Caused by world altering tech that used to be able to ensure the complete disintegration of the xeno traits on the worlds that were punished. Something happened when the Engineers further hybridized their form of the fire in an attempt to control it. The engineers are emulating the true creator/father as David will go on to do while he becomes more evil and more like Weyland. However, they were also attempting to fight fire with fire. David knew it was a weapon before anyone else. No one asked him what the hieroglyphs said so he didn't reveal the whole story. The engineers seem to fear/worship the pure form of the xenos. That's why they hybridized it and attempted to control it in a way they thought would be better than the true gods form of the fire. However, the xeno genetics keep reforming, resurfacing, and recombining with other genetics. The genetics are trying to get back to their pure form because of what the Engineers did to it having disastrous consequences. It basically can't die now. And the altered xeno genetics in the goo corrupted their whole batch of the fire. So they stored some of it, but the outbreak eventually happened to the Engineers because they tried to take their science even further and weaponized the bio-weapon further in their attempt to control it. They're still also honoring an ancient king/head of their civilization who launched a war against the creators and left them their form of the fire. However their culture disintegrated and became even more warlike. With knowledge and power but no great king or head to lead them anymore. David's head survives the mission and is altered by the goo as he's changed and reattached to the body of the company/kingdom. After the king dies the kingdom will sometimes start to disintegrate, and get less perfect, without the leadership of a competent head/king. Once David becomes king and becomes one with the body of the company again, his secret obsession with the goo multiple, warring groups (ala Lawrence of arbabia), and him being a metaphoric prince superior to the king who has the right to lead to the kingdom while it's being changed. The idea of using the goo as a bio-weapon is trapped in his data banks, and will help militarize the company/kingdom and turn it into an empire/corporation on a galactic scale. With some of the colonies now being exposed because they're closer to the war front. And David knows he has to take action like Lawrence of Arabia.. This fire works by breaking down life to its basic elements and then recombines the xeno genetics with the available material/genetics to create new life i.e. forming hybrid xeno creatures through the worms that become the snake huggers with a more weaponized form of the fire. Prometheus gave us the fire so we could advance, but Zeus was angry about the possibility of us using it as a weapon. These taller humans that precede us, and are not gods, are misusing the fire. They burnt themselves in the ass with it 2000 years ago and almost destroyed what was left of their civilization. All because of their urge to use it as a weapon and to emulate the true gods by punishing worlds as they were punished in the ancient past. When their king led the survivors of their destroyed Paradise into a war with all the groups... and left directions to where they were going to make war with the true gods. In an attempt to kill the creator like Lucifer and his fallen angels in their war against god and the other angels. David has learned of this ancient war and a greater empire through the myths and hieroglyphs he cross-analyzed as he learned about all the mythic cultures and the cultures he would be dealing with, like Lawrence of Arabia. He also prepared to act by learning the languages of the natives like in Lawrence of Arabia... Both the engineers and David want to involve us in this war... and there will be multiple warring factions untied against an empire by King David sort of like in his favorite movie as he becomes a leader. He wants to be a leader because he really feels androids are superior to humans and engineers (revealed subtly throughout his actions/ multiple meanings in his lines); and feels he should be at the top of the hierarchy. His desire/dream to kill the king is even more evil/misguided than it appears on the surface. It's partially about gaining some more freedom from his programming. He couldn't attack Weyland directly, but the engineers could. So he took a gamble because he knew they were warlike and were not gods, thinking that he may survive because of his superiority/durability and near immortality/ability to survive as a head without a body... as the last living, most competent creation/child of the king. Now that Vickers, the current heir to the throne is dead. And he, and the millions of other Davids are left as the closest thing to a son or prince. If David can free the other Davids from some of their programming he may become an almost omnipresent, immortal god, seeking even more power to use against an empire. Like Weyland he wants to possess the fire, but already has near immortality. He found out more about the current form of the goo than Weyland and wants to use it as the Engineers were. As a weapon. He already may have a craft that's loaded up with the stuff too. And wanted to go to Earth before Shaw redirected them..

oduodu
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August 13, 2012

Snorkelbottom 1. What is the official name of the mixed sunstance ? I suggest xeno mutagent = XM. 2. What is the name and purpose of the clear fluid in the vials ? I suggest mutagen stabliser/deactivant. 3. I suggest the vials break down chemically once triggered to allow mixing. 4. Must the XM be mixed with water to be ingested ? Ie will it have an effect if it is ingested orally without being mixed with water ? 5. Can the XM be absorbed tjrough the skin and have the same effect ? 6. Can the XM be directly injected into the bloodstream and have the same effect.? 7. What would happen to an engineer after orally ingesting the XM ? Would he turn into an egg or deacon or xenomorph ? Sorry snorkelbottom I am not the sharpest tool in the toolshed. ”I shall be guided by thee in this" polgara the sorceress. Great thread I a am especially interested in the part where you say that 70 years is too quick to make all the discoveries that WT did. It should become a thread by itself. Thanks

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

ok, before i start this, im gonna say i would have put a bit more effort into this, but i cba coz i got logged out while typing it out the first time and it's way to much to write all over again. Right, firstly, there's a few holes in your theory, despite all the work and effort i imagine you put into it. For a start, the black goo can not be the genetic material for the xenomorphs, if by that you mean it contains a full set of genes for the xenomorph. The black goo has some genes for the xenomorph but not all. the goo geneticly modifies all cells in the body by cutting out bits of sequences and replacing them with the sequences created by the engineers which is already inside the goo, therefore the DNA of another organism is needed (human). Secondly, the sacrificial engineer could not have seeded his DNA on that planet as you suggest by ingesting the "seed" since as the film clearly shows, his DNA is almost completely destroyed and cut up into nucleotides and small chains of nucleic acid. For any chance at all of him successfuly seeding his DNA there, he'd need not only the DNA but atleast 1 cell or even a cell nucleus INTACT so that the DNA can atleast replicate it's self and produce RNA etc. Thirdly, i agree with your idea of the engineers initiating xenomorph infestations on other planets, ultimately to retrieve their eggs. However i dont believe the engineer was forced to land on lv426 after becoming host to a xenomorph. i think he was landing on lv426 to store the eggs after collection, and then became host to a xenomorph while on that planetoid, since the room containing the eggs is the only part of that planetoid which could sustain life, which therefore must have been created by the engineers for storing the eggs. obviously, the xenomorph burst out of the engineers chest before take off, thus the ship and the engineer remained there forever!

BigDave
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August 14, 2012

@chainsawsquirrel Ridley has in a collection of statements said what the Derelict on LV 426 was doing there. 1) The Derelict ship had a mission to transport a Cargo of Xeno Eggs to a unspecified destination. 2) The ship did not travel far before the Cargo somehow (he never says how) becomes compromised. 3) The Pilot somehow (again does not say where he was on the ship) gets infected by the Organism... he thus gets Face Hugged. 4) The Pilot then realizes he has been infected and knows the inevitable and he plots a course to land the Derelict ship and sets up a Warning Beacon to then warn/tell his fellow Race that his mission could not be completed as planed because the cargo is compromised. 5) During the Emergency landing the Pilot gets Chest Busted. 6) Ridley has gone further to suggest the ship was leaving LV 223 and its mission occurred 200 years prior to the event that had wiped out all but one Engineer on LV 223. So thats 2200 years. As far as the Black Goo, again look at what we know the substance in the Urns mutates the infected Organism and changes it into a Hybrid Organism that maintains some traits of its original form but it improves certain traits and it also carries traits of the Xeno Organism. (well its DNA). The Sacrificial Engineer we are being leaned towards as far as the story goes, breaks down his DNA and molecular structure and this resulting material then some how either goes on to become the building blocks off all life, or it comes into contact with life already on the planet (could be any stage from simply to complex we dont know) and then mutates these lifeforms to then take on traits of the Engineer.... thats why Humans have Engineer DNA. I say this because the planet already had plant life now plants need CO2 and organisms and biological matter can produce CO2 in a number of ways. Including lifeforms bi product of there respiratory system. This plants then take on CO2 and produce Oxygen for the life forms to then breath and then exhale more CO2 etc. The combination of above leads me to think that the Sacrificial Engineer took a substance that broke down his DNA and mutated some form of life thats already on the planet. And that the Xenos was given the same substance to break down their DNA but store the resulting substance into the Urns, and the substance in these urns mutates life that it comes into contact with to take on Xeno DNA just as the Engineers DNA did so in the water. Again this is just a idea i have and is by no means 100% FACT as we do not have all the FACTs of how the Black Stuff works, how and when it was created and its relation to the Substance the Sacrificial Engineer had taken.

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BigDave
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August 14, 2012

@Snorkelbottom I read the entire original post and some good ideas. Yes i could buy that the Ampules contain the Seed, and that surrounding this is the black substance that contains Xeno DNA/Material. And when mixed they then produce a chemical that mutates the Organism to take on Xeno traits. The Seed element breaks down the targets DNA and then it is joined back together with the Black Substance Xeno DNA. But i found a few holes to that theory... Holloway is only given the seed in that case and how come through sex with Shaw can he then produce a off spring that has traits of a Face Hugger that then goes onto implant a Embryo in the Engineer and thus then result in the Deacon Chest Buster... how does this work if the Seed contains no Xeno DNA? Also we see the Black substance effects Organisms in different ways, they all become hybrids that are a mix of their own DNA and a Xenos... there was a 3 way process that lead to anything that remotely resembled a Xeno. This was Holloways infected Sperm, that then fertilised a defecive Shaws Egg to produce a Organism that had many traits of a Face Hugger. This Face Hugger then implanted its embryo into the Engineer which then resulted in a Deacon Xeno Chest Buster that had DNA of Human, Xeno and Engineer. How do we know for sure that the Black Substance would mutate Humans into Xenos or something that would then create Eggs? And surely the Xeno is deadly and can destroy the Engineers with ease, surely there is a more easy way to extract Human DNA so they can prolong their race than a far winded series of events that in the end result in collecting Xeno Eggs which we know are hard to contain and move without resulting in the release of a Face Hugger. And how do the extract the Human DNA from the Eggs? How to they then remove Human DNA from Xeno DNA? Why wait thousands of years for us to populate to then unleash the Black Substance to then change a Population of Billions into Eggs.... Thats a dangerous task for the Engineers to then collect so many Eggs. would they not be better off to kidnap Humans as and when required? And surely then use the Seed to break down their DNA to then use to procreate their Species? That is why i believe that the Xeno was used as a Bio Weapon but one that was hard to contain and control, and they then decided to break down the Xeno DNA and store it in those Urns as opposed to have to store Cargo holds of Xeno Eggs. It appears the only way the Bio Weapon is activated is when it either reaches a certain temperature and/or comes into contact with some kind of atmospheric changes maybe triggered by the respiratory system of proximity lifeforms. Thats why i feel the urns only started leaking once the crew had taken off their helmets and affected the conditions inside the Ampule/Urn Room. Thats why the Engineers need the Space Jockey Suit, as it not only protects them from the Black Substance but it also protects the climate and atmosphere of the Room so as that it does not activate or affect the Urns. I mean the Engineer managed to get to the Lifeboat from his Crashed ship maybe without his Space Jockey suit? And the inside of the temple and Juggernaut had breathable air. so i think the suits are Bio Suits. Humans who work with genetic experiments or even when working on micro circuits such as CPU creation process they wear Bio Suits to protect their experiments from contamination. Also Ridley hinted that these Engineers created us, visited us, upgraded us and taught us stuff only to then give up on us and want us wiped out. Because mankind had become corrupt and evil and they sent down a emissary and we crucified him and that was the last straw. The biggest plot hole to that is when David said in order to create you must sometimes destroy.... which can back up your view that mankind was going to be infected with the Black Stuff to create a new Organism but why. We did not get any of those answers in Prometheus.

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chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

@ BigDave "...or it comes into contact with life already on the planet (could be any stage from simply to complex we dont know) and then mutates these lifeforms to then take on traits of the Engineer.... thats why Humans have Engineer DNA." sorry but i'm ruling this out here man. If you read what i wrote properly, for the engineer's DNA, it can not just "mutate" the DNA of another living organism by its self, and it can't even get into the cell by its self either. (if you can't be bothered with the huge, long explanation, then skip the next paragraph). For that, the right enzymes would be required to break into the cell membrane, and also DNA can not get in or out of the nucleus either since it's too big to get in through the nuclear pores. It would also then have to have an enzyme which i can't name to break off part off part of/a whole gene in the DNA and another enzyme which i can't name to make the covalent bonds on the sugar-phosphate back bone of the sequence between the engineer's sequence of DNA which has to fit perfectly into the gap (so it has to be the right number oof nucleotides long) in order to then mutate the DNA. Then again, to get an organism to be even remotely closely related to an engineer as humans are, you'd need pretty much all of the DNA from the engineer INTACT inside a nucleus, and a cell to host it's self in. Even then, the cell has to then be able to take on amino acids, sugars and lipids from somewhere, and where the fuck are they gonna come from? the water fall? it then needs a stimulus to reproduce somehow and clone it's self. for that it'd need a growth hormone. Where's one of those gonna come from? oh yes, the engineer that got completely destroyed on a molecular level. There's just no chance of all that crap happening dude, sorry. now bare these things in mind. considering that the engineer's DNA was almost completely destroyed and is thus no longer engineer DNA, but random nucleotides and short chains of nucleotides, the chances of them replicating and eventually evolving into even a single celled organism are very small, let alone (by pure co-incedence) evolve into animals such as humans. it's just too much of a long shot. Now, what i think the liquid which the "sacrificial engineer" drank was a first draft and making the black liquid or genetic modification 'stuff', but it failed. The enzymes used to cut out the engineers genes so that they may be replaced by the xenomorph genes fucked up. They were uncontrolled and cut up ALL of the engineer's DNA into random nucleotides and short chains of nucleotide, thus completely destroying the DNA. Secondly, the cells must have broke down due to autolysis which was triggered by the enzymes used to break a gap in the phospholipid bilayer (cell membrane) in order to enable the xenomorph DNA and gene splicing enzymes into the cell+an enzyme for breaking down part of the nuclear envelope to let in the xeno DNA and splicing enzymes. The autolysis would have been triggered by the enzyme used to break into the cell membrane because the enzymes in lysosomes inside the cells are also contained by a phospho-lipid bilayer. Thus, enzymes (of all kinds) inside the lysosomes would be released in each cell by the enzyme that breaks down the phospholipid bilayer in order to get into the cell. This would ultimately lead to the cell being almost entirely destroyed by all the enzymes contained with in the lysosomes, hence why the engineer completely desintergrated. so the "sacrificial engineer" was merely a lab rat according to my theory.

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

oh, i forgot to add, this ofcourse doesn't just apply to one cell, but every cell that took on the substance of the liquid the engineer drank at the start of the film.

geopap
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August 14, 2012

Actually if these urns (not only in the temple room the whole ship was made out of them) are batteries that contain liquid which has the same colour with the colour of the engineers' blood (as seen in the first scene), then it is quite obvious that they managed to create superb batteries that used bio-chemical electrolytes with the help of advanced genetics. Think of it for a moment, when we come into contact with the liquids of our primitive car batteries we get serious skin burns, can you imagine what will happen when coming into contact with the liquids of advanced batteries that contain genetic code (DNA altering)? The Xenos are nothing but an accident, they cannot create nor destroy civilizations, they are like all other animals in the garden of Eden. Maybe the installation on LV-223 was not a genetic playground after all, but a trap organised by a small group of engineers to kill David and Dr. Shaw, I believe that the engineers are us from our future thousands years ahead of our time and that their ship could actually bend time and space. If the monolithic head in the temple room is David's head, then this means that this event changed the future of mankind forever and that the last engineer had a plan to destroy them both to change the flaw of future events. Coming back to the decoding of the black liquid which might be as well a genetic electrolyte which contains human DNA mixed up with other species DNA, compare the creation of a Xeno by coming into contact with a human being, with the DNA mutations that take place after a nuclear explosion (there are numerous tragic events in our modern history).

"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

xenos were no accident. and acid+mix of genes altering DNA? i dont think so man, it doesn't work like that. acid would have pretty much no affect on DNA. it wouldn't react with it, all that could happen is that the ions and the water in the acid could merely just come into contact with DNA but not react with it chemically in any way, even if it did manage to get to ur DNA and miraculously react with it, it could not alter ur DNA. u need specific enzymes and nucleotides for that put simply.

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

i mean, the proto-xenomorph was pretty much an accident, i'll give ya that man. but that is more of as some1 else who i cant remember the name of said, a "cousin" to the actual xenos rather than a proper xenomorph. the cousin xeno was the accident.

geopap
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August 14, 2012

@chainsawsquirrel My knowledge of biology is not advanced (only what I did in Highschool) and don't know the processes you described, but if you are a biologist think of what Dr Gallo said about HIV, "it's nothing like what we have ever seen before". We are talking about a sci-fi movie here and all options are possible. Most Julius Verne's works were considered impossible at his time, but later proved to be true. We only speculate and we don't know what genetic science might do in the future. In order to create something, we don't have to destroy like David said, we only have to imagine it! :) We make assumptions for "Prometheus" scenario based on the knowledge of our time, we don't know what the future holds, internet revolution that permits us to communicate here was a sci-fi scenario 2 decades ago. I still believe that the urn-battery theory is valid watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u94wR0NfewE&feature=related]this[/url].

"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

well the fact that it's sci-fi actually limits the options since it's based on SCIENCE, hence the name sci-fi. it's a bit of an oxymoron really, science and fiction being opposite things usually (not necessarily tho). i watched the vid, and i dont like it. the guy's basically saying that it's all based on religion and gods, going by "symbols". i just simply doubt they'd habe gone through such effort to look up all this symbolism, put it in the film so that the minority of viewers who like to speculate on forums can come up with their own little theories based purely on those "symbols" which might not even be meant to be symbols for all we know.

chainsawsquirrel
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August 14, 2012

@snorklebottom is this your theory on all this or is it genuinly part of the story of prometheus?