Ridley Scott and Alien

I stumbled upon Strange Shapes years ago by accident on a thread like some newer folks might do now. It is the gold standard of sorts to me for both the casual and hard core. 

What really got my attention was when they talked about the whole egg silo/Derelict and cost vs time aspect- and what we eventually saw. That was a fascinating read and has sparked endless debate here. BigDave and other members was/is a heavy hitter on explaining things mentioned on that site. No one is 100% correct since things have not been officially explained, but the theories and discussions are what really keep this forum going.

Strange Shapes is the place to check out for in depth history and interviews with interesting art work. 

Yes, it's like a tresure chest.

Can't stop reading from there.

Not many people know that the facehugger from the film was not designed by Giger, but by O'Bannon,  following Ridley Scott's suggestions to combine elements from various works from Giger's Necronom. The early facehugger designs by Giger are those featured in the mural from Prometheus:

“There was a big meeting,” O’Bannon told Cinefex in 1979, “and everybody was talking at the same time and trying to tell Dicken what the hell it should look like (the facehugger). Finally, Ridley pulled out Giger’s book and said: ‘Look, I want these fingers here on this page and I want that over there for the back, and then I want the tail from this other page.’ And Dicken was just confused. So I asked Ridley if I could take a try at it, and he said, ‘Go ahead.’ So I went over to the art department with Dicken and we took a drafting table and a huge piece of paper and some pencils. I drew two heads on the paper, and then I opened up Giger’s book and put it down in front of us.”

“‘All right,’ I said. ‘Ridley said he wanted part of this body, right?’ And I sketched it out. ‘And he liked these fingers.’ So I added the fingers. ‘And he wanted this tail.’ Well, while we were doing this, Giger came in –his plane had arrived from Switzerland- and he had some new designs for the facehugger. And they were very similar to what we were putting together on the drawing board – not identical, but similar. His had an eye on the back, and the shape of it was much more like the palm of a hand. I looked at them and I said, ‘Oh, that’s good.’ Then Giger looked at the thing I was sketching with Dicken, and he said, ‘No, that’s better, that’s much better.’ I was really flattered. So I said, ‘Then I should continue with it?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yes.’ So we went on.”

Facehugger profile. Note the cyclopean eye. Image copyright HR Giger.

O’Bannon continues: “When it came to trying to figure out what kind of a skeletal understructure the thing would need so the fingers could hook up, I got Ron Cobb over and he scrawled out his ideas – which, as usual, were excellent. Then I cleaned the whole thing up a little and did it in ink –exact size- and that’s what we went with.”

The facehugger, like the film at large, was the rare successful product of a melting pot approach to design. “I was really pleased,” said O’Bannon, “because I had kind of eclectically constructed the facehugger out of the things that Ridley wanted and the things that Giger wanted, and some good ideas from Cobb and from Dicken. Then we put the thing through a blueprint machine, got Ridley to okay it, and Roger went off and built it.”

Ridley with Giger’s Necronomicon paintings and a prototype facehugger bust. Image courtesy of mauvais-genres.

(Strange Shapes)

So you seem to have a passing fancy for Strange Shapes ........................................yeah it is the shit imo.

No passing fancy for Strange Shapes, I just tried to put together some facts that made Alien as it is and especially that Ridley Scott played a decisive role in it. Because I see people tend to forget that.

Strange Shapes is there, I put the links in the posts for those who want to read more about the franchise from Alien to Prometheus.

daliens Sorry if the cynical dark humor was missed. I agree with you. 

The link was mentioned at least nine times in six posts between the two of us lol! 

You can lead a horse to water.....................

Not to diminish Strange Shapes' contribution to the Alien fandom but any newer fans should also check out the Weyland-Yutani Archives, a similar blog created by Scified's very own Xeno_Alpha_07. Hosted here on Scified the W-Y Archives were originally hosted on Blogger for many years.

Another valuable resource for Alien fans is the Alien Universe Timeline created by Scott Middlebrook, AKA Scified member S.M. Other Alien lore websites that fans may also find of interest are The Nostromo Files, Alien Universe (which has replaced the cool MUTHUR interface that was at Alienmovies.com), and of course the guys over at AVP Galaxy. Of course, there are many other Alien resources out there but these together with Strange Shapes are the ones worth mentioning, IMO.

Gavin Thanks- I have not seen most of those other references but I seem to have found out an actual name for S.M. whom hasn't been around here for a long time!

Let's remain focused, the subject of this post is not Strange Shapes, but the influential role played by Ridley Scott in making of Alien.

Thank you.

dk there were different links to different pages with different content and because I extracted only the content about Ridley Scott I thought it was important for those interested to have the link and read the page in full.

I suppose very few will be curious enough, you're right about that.

Gavin thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

Great research daliens.

Producers... well, you know. They are ordinary people. Ridley, O'Bannon and Giger - visionaries, they are people of the future. Maybe Disney will turn off Giler from this universe, and will be used peoples who shares vision of the visionaries. And we will finally see truly alien worlds.

There is no denying that Ridley Scott was instrumental in helping shape 1979's Alien into the movie it became, but since he returned with his series of prequel movies he has staked ownership on the entire franchise, ownership he cannot claim IMO.

Blogs like Strange Shapes and other online resources help catalog the 40+ years of interviews and behind-the-scenes information that help fans appreciate the movies that little bit more, but said information, and I mean no offense by this (I have such a blog of my own linked in my signature), is for the most part merely a collection of interviews, most of which, as interviews tend to be, are diplomatically and politically (in terms of promoting the movie) phrased. What you will not find in these interviews is what wasn't said publically, although with the history of Alien and it's sequels certain truths have been deduced, such as Giler's constant interference, O'Bannon and Fincher's mistreatment by the aforementioned, and Scott and Camerons frustration towards Giler.

Giler hate aside, and getting back to Scott, Ridley was key to the first movie, but his contributions and practices were not all paved with gold...

# Allegedly Scott was shy and reclusive on set and gave very little in way of direction. This may have been due to inexperience with Alien being his second ever movie. But in his wake Cameron (Aliens was his second movie) and Fincher (Alien 3 was his directorial debut) reportedly showed much more authority on set.

# For the Space Jockey scene Scott famously used children in smaller versions of the principal actor's suits, with the intention of making the set look twice as large. Yet in all subsequent shots, the principal actors are used on the same set creating a conflicting scale. Some might call this nitpicking, but imagine such an error of scale appearing in a modern movie such as The Lord of the Rings. And then, of course, there is the shot of the Aliens tail raising provocatively between Lambert's legs just before it kills her, and has led many to believe it also violated her. But those aren't Lambert's legs - the shot was taken from Brett's death scene earlier in the movie.

# Scott was far from the first choice for the role. Other, higher profile directors at the time turned the movie down. When Scott was hired Fox were literally scraping the barrel, and Giler clearly believed Scott would sway the production in his favor, Which thankfully Scott did not. Not being a horror movie director, as he proved with Hannibal, Scott was ill-suited for the job, and a more established horror director may have produced a better movie, but alas we will never know now. In modern context imagine Paul Feig making a Terminator movie (*shudder*)

# Yes Scott demanded Giger be brought on board, and that O'Bannon's script idea of an actual Alien be used, but both of these, and likely many more aspects of the key decisions while being ticked off by Scott were raised and championed by O'Bannon, who was literally fighting against Giler to have his vision of Alien be made, as opposed to Giler's needless rewrite.

# Not all of Scott's ideas were "inspired". There is, of course, the infamous mention that Scott wanted the Alien to kill Ripley and mimic her voice in the movies closing scene. Another bad idea was Scott's suggestions for some of the Aliens movements, such as the crab walk toward Lambert (see below) which was thankfully left on the cutting room floor, as well as the needlessly exploitative casting scenes depicting Dallas and Ripley as lovers.

After directing Alien, and briefly working on a sequel Scott abandoned the franchise for 33 years. And while devout fans will always view the first movie through rose-tinted spectacles, it was Cameron's sequel in 1986 that propelled the franchise into popularity. I am not denying that Alien was influential, but Aliens was the movie that for many started it all - the comics, the games, the toys. And while some fans berate Camerons Queen, it was this aspect of the Alien that the sequels and the crossovers continued.

But back to Scott.

After 33 years, and a string of good and bad movies he returned to the Alien franchise with rapturous applause and delivered Prometheus. Yes, Prometheus expanded the mythology and was a visual masterpiece, but together with Alien: Covenant lets chronicle what Scott has, of recent contributed to the Alien franchise...

# It was Scott that hired Damon Lindelof to add the "mystery-box" elements to Prometheus. Lindelof is now virtually unemployable.

# For all intents and purposes Scott has retconned the Space Jockey into a bald jock in a suit.

# The Alien is, according to Scott, created by David; a synthetic created by mankind.

# The black goo, shown in Prometheus to infect victims with Xenomorph traits, and the key to David creating his perfect organism, is also shown in Covenant to be a more "generic" bioweapon when unleashed on the Engineer city.

# Rather than deliver what could have been an Alien 2001, Scott and Fox listened to YouTube videos such as the Prometheus HISHE, rather than the fans, and delivered possibly the worst Alien movie to date.

# Scott has repeatedly said that the beast is cooked. And in its place, because his performance in Prometheus was praised, Scott focused more on David than on the Alien, even breaking the cardinal rule of having the creature in full view in daylight (even AVPR avoid breaking that rule).

# The characterization, editing choices and chosen narrative directions taken in the Alien prequels have divided the fanbase.

# Despite whatever arguments one may have against his proposal, Neill Blomkamp's movie generated enough interest among the fandom for Fox to consider it. Early reports suggested that the movie would enter production after Covenants release, with Scott attached as executive producer. However, as Covenants release drew closer Scott proclaimed that the next movie, his third prequel would enter production immediately thereafter and that Blomkamp's movie had been shelved. Scott's movie was rumored to be titled Alien: Awakening, which was formerly the title of Blomkamp's proposed movie. More recently, despite that both James Cameron and Sigourney Weaver have stated that they loved Blomkamp's script, Scott has said that Blomkamp only supplied a short treatment/outline.

# Covenant performed so poorly compared to Prometheus and received such a backlash from fans that Fox put the brakes on Scott's Alien: Awakening, with Stacey Snider shooting down Scott's plans to produce an AI centric war of the worlds, stating that the story of any such sequel to Covenant was not certain.

In short, while Scott may have played a key role in finishing the production of Alien, it was Dan O'Bannon that was the driving force throughout - without O'Bannon none of any of this would have happened. But if one is to praise Scott for his achievements, one should also take into account the damage he has reaped on the franchise and the fandom. Pre-Prometheus I, as we all, heralded Scott's return, but post-Covenant I'm wishing he had not bothered. 

Thanks Leto 

I believe Giler's twist to the story, introducing an android and the evil Company, made the film better, strengthened O'Bannon's initial version, which would have probably felt a bit dated these days without the conspiracy and would have limited the potential for the sequels.

All in all, my take is Alien was made in one of those crucial moments when everything that happens adds to the success of the project. Everyone's contribution pushed the story forward.

Another example I can think of, and being a Ridley Scott dedicated topic, is Gladiator.

That crab walk movement of the Alien was probably connected to Lambert's death, that was supposed to be different, Lambert was to hide into one of those lockers that Jonesy came out of and die of fright. But that got changed, as it got changed in every script before, and Veronica Cartwright found about how her character died only when she saw the film. Those are indeed Brett's legs with the Alien tail in that scene, but how many people realized it unless they read about it somewhere?  Isn't that brilliant?

There are more shots with Bolaji Badejo practicing with the suit on, to nail an appropriate system of movement for the beast, I suppose it was not an easy task to be in the shoes of a xenomorph, but in the film he did a great job (deleted scenes don't matter too much):

Gavin regarding that Blomkamp proposed movie, yes, I'd like to have that movie made, because it seems it is the only way to stop the gossip of what a lovely movie it would have been and how arrogant was Ridley Scott to shelve it.

I don't expect it to be much better than The Predator,, that was also highly praised before it was released, but I am not a fan of Aliens either, so not among the target audience for Fox/Disney if they prefer to invest in another dead end popcorn flick. In Disneyland, Orlando.

Ridley Scott said the beast is cooked because it WAS COOKED by the two sequels to Alien: deep fried/grilled in Aliens and stuffed/boiled/bloated in Resurrection (first time when aliens are showed in full light and swimming).

The queen was very popular I suppose, because it laid eggs, a lot of eggs so a lot of aliens good for a shooting spree. Didn't those sequels have a lot of shootings? Oh, yes!

(Because I remembered the death of Newborn, Ridley Scott mentioned he wanted a similar death for Lambert, but in 1979 there was no CGI)

The queen in Alien3 was force-fed to David Fincher by the producers, in the director cut it is not even seen, nothing bursts out of Ripley's chest. So the last queen was supposed to be dead and gone from the franchise. With Ripley,  with Newt, with Hicks. But the fans were so outraged, like they were after Prometheus, like they are after Alien Covenant.

For me the true and only sequel to Alien is Alien3. I think I outraged some more fans.

What can i say... I'm a huge Fan of Ridley Scott work. 

About the film 'Alien' -1979, he is the director, therefore, the film is his recorded vision.

A film director is a person who directs the making of a film. A film director controls a film's artistic and dramatic aspects and visualizes the screenplay (or script) while guiding the technical crew and actors in the fulfilment of that vision. The director has a key role in choosing the cast members, production design, and the creative aspects of filmmaking.

 Under European Union law, the director is viewed as the author of the film.

The film director gives direction to the cast and crew and creates an overall vision through which a film eventually becomes realized, or noticed. Directors need to be able to mediate differences in creative visions and stay within the boundaries of the film's budget.

Great topic, daliens!

Thanks, setaverde.

Glad to see more Ridley Scott fans around here.

In This link you can watch the making of Prometheus, part 1.

https://youtu.be/O-MP4-Wu1Ec

daliens

I believe Giler's twist to the story, introducing an android and the evil Company, made the film better

Completely agree with this. But it was literally ONE good thing form Giler. In all other levels he ruined franchise. Alien3 for example. You may not agree, but ask Fincher - he refused the film, because it's a studio project. He also say: give me money and I will shoot another Alien 3.

Btw, I like the crab walk. :) Really alien stuff.

Ridley Scott said the beast is cooked

Words of offended boy, nothing more.

Gavin

I agree with your words. I think, first of all, we should all honest. Without Cameron's ALIENS we would not be here. Because there would be no franchise. There would be no Prometheus.

It would be nice to get the announcement of the Aliens 2 on the Alien Day.

Well i think we have to thank Ridley Scott for his ability to get FOX to take on board some of the ideas he felt was best to go, and so he was able to get FOX to use more of O'Bannons Idea, and also to use HR Giger.

If they went with Hill and Giler and IF they also tampered with the Life-Cycle (that O'Bannon came up with) and we never had HR Giger..  Then ALIEN would have just been another 70's B Sci-Fi MOVIE!

HR Gigers Concepts/Aesthetic and O'Bannons main Story are WHAT gave us the ALIEN we had, i think we should remember however that Ridley Scotts influence is what managed to get O'Bannon and HR Gigers contributions included in the Movie.

I DONT think that Cameron's ALIENS is to thank for what we got and the Prequels...  IF he never made ALIENS then eventually we would have got a ALIEN 2 or a ALIEN Prequel.    I will say i can understand that Cameron's ALIENS did elevate the Franchise and made it the Launch Platform for countless Sequels and Novels and Games etc etc.

Without his ALIENS... there would have been sequels... they may have been BETTER... they may have been WORSE!  We can only Speculate on that.... But what is for CERTAIN is the Action Packed ALIENS was a hit, and for a Majority of people who see a Xenomorph or asked about the Franchise its Cameron's Addition that most people would associate with the Franchise.

The popularity of that Movie and what it brought to the Table is what has been the Spring Board to all the $$$$ that FOX had made from the Franchise over the years.

I am sure thats what LETO meant... as in IF we never had ALIENS, we could (or not) have had a ALIEN 2 that could have been In-superior and maybe Rubbish in which case the Franchise would NOT be at the Level is is today as far as Brand Recognition.

I will add more to this debate tomorrow..

In context of RS and Blomkamp... i would say Blomkamp's Leak of his Alien 5, caused problems for RS and what he intended for the Prequels.. i am not sure we can assume Blomkamp did this to deliberately De-Rail the Prequels... he certainly did want to Gauge/Test the Fanbase because he felt the Franchise NEEDED a more ALIENY movie than what the Prequels were giving.

I think RS had no problem with ALIEN 5 he just wanted to get his Next Prequel done First, so as that ALIEN 5 does-not steal its THUNDER or tread on its Toes...  He was protecting his investment of ideas into the Prequels.

IF we had ALIEN 5 first and it BOMBED!   then FOX would maybe have Concerns about continuing the Franchise, they would then be like, DO WE wait before Ridley Scott can do his Prequels... or risk making the Prometheus 2 NOW in light of how Poor ALIEN 5 had done?

IF we had ALIEN 5 become a HIT then maybe FOX would want to ROLL OUT a Alien 6 etc... which would delay the Time for WHEN it would be that RS can complete his Prequels.

Ridley Scott was having Problems with his Prometheus 2 they just could not settle on a STORY... Blomkamp shows his Alien 5 off, this excited more Fans...  FOX then gave Alien 5 the Green Light, RS became Producer and no doubt he would have Sat Down with FOX and talked about Alien 5  then Alien 5 got put on ICE while RS brought in more Writers to Pen what Evolved into a more ALIENY Sequel with Xenomorphs that was Alien Covenant!

HAD we seen Alien Covenant become a HIT both Financially and Critically then i think FOX would have gone on to maybe work on Alien 5 and Alien Covenant 2.

I know some may not like this.... but IMO i do think the Reveal of Blomkamp's Alien 5, the Praising of it by Miss Weaver is in part to Blame for the direction we are now in...

Had Blomkamp NOT leaked his ideas... i think Prometheus 2 would have been different... but there would have been NO Guarantee that Prometheus 2 would have been Done/Released in 2017 as they was having a Problematic Time getting the RIGHT kind of PLOT...

So its not a case of WHEN he should have leaked it, as in when does he WAIT?  and from his POV... why not release a idea, if he feels its what Fans would want... he certainly would not have been Wrong for the Most Part!

The Thing is IF they had Green Lit ALIEN 5

Well i think we have to thank Ridley Scott for his ability to get FOX to take on board some of the ideas he felt was best to go, and so he was able to get FOX to use more of O'Bannons Idea, and also to use HR Giger.

If they went with Hill and Giler and IF they also tampered with the Life-Cycle (that O'Bannon came up with) and we never had HR Giger..  Then ALIEN would have just been another 70's B Sci-Fi MOVIE!

HR Gigers Concepts/Aesthetic and O'Bannons main Story are WHAT gave us the ALIEN we had, i think we should remember however that Ridley Scotts influence is what managed to get O'Bannon and HR Gigers contributions included in the Movie.

I DONT think that Cameron's ALIENS is to thank for what we got and the Prequels...  IF he never made ALIENS then eventually we would have got a ALIEN 2 or a ALIEN Prequel.    I will say i can understand that Cameron's ALIENS did elevate the Franchise and made it the Launch Platform for countless Sequels and Novels and Games etc etc.

Without his ALIENS... there would have been sequels... they may have been BETTER... they may have been WORSE!  We can only Speculate on that.... But what is for CERTAIN is the Action Packed ALIENS was a hit, and for a Majority of people who see a Xenomorph or asked about the Franchise its Cameron's Addition that most people would associate with the Franchise.

The popularity of that Movie and what it brought to the Table is what has been the Spring Board to all the $$$$ that FOX had made from the Franchise over the years.

I am sure thats what LETO meant... as in IF we never had ALIENS, we could (or not) have had a ALIEN 2 that could have been In-superior and maybe Rubbish in which case the Franchise would NOT be at the Level is is today as far as Brand Recognition.

I will add more to this debate tomorrow..

In context of RS and Blomkamp... i would say Blomkamp's Leak of his Alien 5, caused problems for RS and what he intended for the Prequels.. i am not sure we can assume Blomkamp did this to deliberately De-Rail the Prequels... he certainly did want to Gauge/Test the Fanbase because he felt the Franchise NEEDED a more ALIENY movie than what the Prequels were giving.

I think RS had no problem with ALIEN 5 he just wanted to get his Next Prequel done First, so as that ALIEN 5 does-not steal its THUNDER or tread on its Toes...  He was protecting his investment of ideas into the Prequels.

IF we had ALIEN 5 first and it BOMBED!   then FOX would maybe have Concerns about continuing the Franchise, they would then be like, DO WE wait before Ridley Scott can do his Prequels... or risk making the Prometheus 2 NOW in light of how Poor ALIEN 5 had done?

IF we had ALIEN 5 become a HIT then maybe FOX would want to ROLL OUT a Alien 6 etc... which would delay the Time for WHEN it would be that RS can complete his Prequels.

Ridley Scott was having Problems with his Prometheus 2 they just could not settle on a STORY... Blomkamp shows his Alien 5 off, this excited more Fans...  FOX then gave Alien 5 the Green Light, RS became Producer and no doubt he would have Sat Down with FOX and talked about Alien 5  then Alien 5 got put on ICE while RS brought in more Writers to Pen what Evolved into a more ALIENY Sequel with Xenomorphs that was Alien Covenant!

HAD we seen Alien Covenant become a HIT both Financially and Critically then i think FOX would have gone on to maybe work on Alien 5 and Alien Covenant 2.

I know some may not like this.... but IMO i do think the Reveal of Blomkamp's Alien 5, the Praising of it by Miss Weaver is in part to Blame for the direction we are now in...

Had Blomkamp NOT leaked his ideas... i think Prometheus 2 would have been different... but there would have been NO Guarantee that Prometheus 2 would have been Done/Released in 2017 as they was having a Problematic Time getting the RIGHT kind of PLOT...

So its not a case of WHEN he should have leaked it, as in when does he WAIT?  and from his POV... why not release a idea, if he feels its what Fans would want... he certainly would not have been Wrong for the Most Part!

The Thing is IF they had Green Lit ALIEN 5
for a say 2018/2019 release and it began Production say 6-12 Months after Ridley Scott did his sequel to Prometheus... the risk for RS is that some fans knowing that Alien 5 (bring the gang back) would be out in a few years.. they may have just NOT had a interest in RS sequel to Prometheus especially if this would not give them the Xenomorph Origins or a Xeno-Fix!

I think for me Dan O'Bannon, Ron Shusett and HR Giger are truly the ones who gave us what we had, others such as Giler and Hill did add some elements but i feel especially without Giger and O'Bannon the Franchise would not have been what it was.

Ridley Scott should be praised for influencing the Studio to go with the things that gave us ALIEN.  But then when it comes to the prequels we could argue that he should have FOUGHT for what he was happy with at First..

The Tone Down of Xenomorph Clues, and No similar Monsters was a Mistake, it never had to be fully Alien Engineers, but a bit more of Alien Engineers surely was needed.   Alien Covenant?  Well i think that really was a disappointing route, but we have to consider the Studio had pressured him to TONE down the Xeno for the First Prequel and then FORCE in the Xeno in the second Prequel.

You sense RS was not a Fan of that Direction with some of his comments like "they want $"£%$£^ Aliens, i will give them $"£%£$^ Aliens"  and how he FELT he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.

But Ridley Scott still gets a lot of Stick, especially from Cameron Fans, i think some may have felt the Prequels should have been more about the Xenomorph and Queen. And it was like RS Prequels just ignored Aliens to some..

But then Cameron had ignored Alien and its Source Material to a degree also...  Space Jockey, Derelict?  Nah we dont need that.... those are Eggs and Eggs are Laid and Voila here is the Queen!

This really BUGS some Alien Fans (pun intended) but again i have defended the Queen (nope not the UK one but the Popper Queen lol) in that its a Logical Assumption to explore that Eggs are Laid, because well Eggs are either Laid or Change into Organisms that are usually Birthed.

The Xenomorph Life-Cycle from Alien DC was truly Alien, but as it was NOT in the Theatrical and as Ridley Scott was not part of the sequel, then Cameron was free to come up with a Queen, and the Hive Mind/Colony Plot. I know some Aliens fans were concerned at the time of the Prequels that THEY would do something to Discount/Diminish the Queen, but i am not sure thats what happened.

I think that we need to remember the Studio has a lot of say, and also David Giler and Walter Hill also. If Cameron got to make another Alien Movie you have to wonder if they would get involved or would we be able to get Cameron's  Discover a Queen, Lays Eggs, Xenomorphs on the Loose, Run and Shoot and Ripley Saves the Day Popcorn Flick! 

I think for some this could work, but i am not sure it would work if they continue with this Formula.... you have to add some NEW stuff...

The Prequels attempted to do this, and i think the idea in a ideal world was that the Prequels did something different and explored the Space Jockey/Engineers, and that we could see further ALIEN movies that would bring back the Xenomorph, but FOX just could not commit to making TWO such Movies at the same time.

I think we need to bare in mind Studio Influence that lead to Lindeloff and the Remove the Xenomorph Route, and also Problems with the HR Giger Estate that may have mean less of that Aesthetic.

Visuals are were RS excels but he does suffer from some OVERSIGHTS...  which indeed had led to some inconsistencies, such as the Engineers Size... which they should have used Special Effects like the LOTR/Hobbit.

I think RS gets a lot of blame for Alien Covenant... it was a wasted opportunity as far as Engineers, a not wise choice with the David Creates the Xenomorph.... but you could tell that Ridley Scott wanted to NOT cover the Xenomorph and he had intended to cover the Engineers more... but Studio Pressure and we got Alien Covenant.

I do wonder how much of a Influence RS will have on the Franchise from now on...

Maybe Disney should allow for Blomkamps bring the Gang Back and see what does it really offer different than what we have seen in Aliens/Alien Resurrection?

I think a ALIEN movie has potential... i just dont think it has to center just around the Queen and also NO bring the Gang Back... they are Dead!

But as its Easter Period... who knows maybe they can be Resurrected and Queens laying Chocolate Eggs (joke)

Dont get me wrong though, i should not be taken as ALIENS or Cameron Bashing!  There is a Market for the more Action Packed Xeno-Flick, certainly also is the Formula that is used in a Majority of the Games/Comics and a Formula that had been a Great Marketing and Merchandise Asset to FOX.

I do look at it as Ridley Scott does and that is the Formula has been repeated a lot, the Games, Comics seem to be very similar to what say a Aliens and Alien Resurrection had done, and the Xenomorph via Games and Comics and how it became in Alien Resurection and AVP Movies, was something that just was NOT as Scary or Interesting as it had been Overdone!

You needed to change it a bit, introduce something Fresh, but that really is difficult, the Same Queen, Eggs, Face Huger, Chest Buster, Xenomorph.. Run, and Shoot, Greedy/Selfish Company wants Organism and a Ripley comes to save the day (other Hero's/Heroins in Comics), it gets Repetitive for some, but i understand some would love to have a repeat of a Aliens over and over and have NO problems...

Other ways you can change the Franchise, would be introduce New Versions and Hybrids, but some Purest are NOT fans of that.

Or you can make the Xenomorph something much more Special and Intelligent, but the Franchise so FAR has not indicated that these Xenomorphs will go around and Create Technology they can use to Fly Around.. they seem to basically be More Alieny kind of Bee Hive!

This is why RS with the Prequels wanted to explore something NEW and have the Prequel Series go off and NOT be about the Xenomorph but expand something NEW with the Engineers/Space Jockey, while then leaving the Alien Franchise Free to make more Comics, Books and maybe Movies that would be about the Xenomorph (But please NO Ripley, i dont think she has to be part of every movie).

That was the PLAN.... Prequels = Something New for Alien Fans and Sci-Fi Fans..  Original Franchise = Platform to give Alien Fans Movies and Games and Comics about Queens and Eggs, but Ultimately Xenomorphs.   Some of those Fans were just NOT happy with the Prequels, and some felt they SHOULD be about the Xenomorph as the Main Element....  i think the Engineers and who created them is what it should be about...

But what a Mess we are in NOW with the Plot of Alien Covenant, some elements interesting but a Distraction as by Virtue of a ALIEN Prefix, it is going to be expected to be about Xenomorphs and getting to when those Eggs get onto the Derelict.

Bottom Line with them is when you First Saw the Derelict and Space Jockey Scene.....   when you look at those Planet 4 Engineers and their City (not including their Ships) and then the Reveal a Weyland Created Robot had created the Xenomorph....

BOTH of these are just NOT as ALIEN as the Space Jockey Scene, and Eggs in ALIEN seemed to Allure us towards.

BigDave

Sorry, but you say nonsense. "Fans want..." "Some fans..." "Maybe fans..."

Do you really don't understand? Prometheus and Alien Covenant good films. Many people and "aliens fans" love this films. They love Engineers, Black goo and Neomorphs. Nobody wants a Queen or something like that in Prometheus.

It's all about quality of performance! Alien and Aliens have the best quality. You don't need to buy Aliens with a Queen, but you should be honest. Alien and Aliens - gold standard. You will be extremely surprised, when you find out that many fans don't have obsessions about Queen, Ripley and Colonial Marines. Reason why people love Alien and Aliens - high quality.

Leto

I have two dilemmas regarding Aliens:

1. How did they keep those two facehuggers alive in the big glass jars from Hadley's Hope? How did they surgically remove them and how come they did not die? If there was time to perform the surgery, victims died anyway, the facehuggers had time to implant the eggs and, as we all know, after that any facehugger dies happily.

2. How was Ripley holding on on one hand, the airlock open, queen attached to her leg until, luckily, her shoe got lost toghether with the queen?

1. This is the future. FTL, cryosleep. Keep facehuggers alive is some liquid - the easiest.

2. You will find out if you go to the gym. ;)

OK, Leto.

I'll put it in the log :)

"Sorry, but you say nonsense. "Fans want..." "Some fans..." "Maybe fans..."

This is WHY i say SOME! and not Most or  ALL

Some Fans like Alien and Alien 3, and dont like Camerons Queen and Bugs!  Some fans do, and prefer this.

Some Fans like Prometheus... but then some Fans find disappointments in the direction, and i dont mean just limited to Dumb Characters.  I think these recent discussions HIGHLIGHT this..

I think its hard to Please Everyone.....  not everyone is going to accept that 7ft Bald Humans are the Space Jockey, not everyone is going to accept David was the Instigator and Creator of the Xenomorph

I would ASSUME.... most Fans would feel that the Planet 4 Engineers and their City is steering the Space Jockey away from what made it so ALIEN in the First Movie...  I am sure that Most Fans would feel that having a Synthetic David Create the Xenomorph in a Process some 19-29 Years before the Events of Alien, as being Totally NOT what we expect when we look at ALIEN and also diminishes the Alien Origins of what we assumed the Xenomorph was.

So when i look at what some Fans like or dont, it does-not have to apply to Criticism of Prometheus, but debates on sites like this.  Some Fans have different interpretations and wishes for how Prometheus would connect to ALIEN, even though it did-not give much connection.

In Hindsight... i think had Prometheus had more clues (Fifield was more a Hybrid with Acid Blood) we spent more time on the Mural and Fresco and some passing comment to give us a Clue, such as Davids sometimes to create comment, and Dr Shaws Outbreak Comments.

Having the Hammerpede shown to have Small Eggs after one is SHOT... and then seeing Milburn Chest Burst or Back Burst or whatever a Organism like the Neomorph, maybe this gets killed, maybe it escapes and is encountered a bit after and killed.  

A closer look at the other Engineer Cryo-Pods...

Then these changes would have surely improved the Movie, but still Flaws in Characters would have remained.. if these had also been improved then Prometheus could have been much better... and ALLOWED the Door to Alien to be CLOSED, and allowed a Prometheus 2 to go some place FAR FAR away and NOT be about the Xenomorph.

And NOT have have to give us Alien Covenant... which must be a NIGHTMARE for most Fans they hope they can wake up from.

My Re-write of Prometheus was as i had discussed above, i also improved some of the Dumb Scenes.. but my Prometheus Edit would have been a 2hr 40 Min Movie! So no good for the Theater and we would have been back at Square ONE with Cuts/Edits.

But such a direction with some more Alien Monster Scenes, some more clues... would have allowed Prometheus 2 to open a different Tangent of a Franchise.

They could have then apleased some Fans who may have wanted more clues and similar Monsters.. at least long enough to then give them another ALIEN movie after Prometheus 2.

Which could have been another Prequel route, a mission to LV-223 which could have then been more ALIENY and Action Packed, and given more or definitive Answers to LV-426

I certainly agree that NOT every movie needs a Queen, some Fans may want them, but i am sure MOST Fans would expect a ALIEN movie to at least have something that is related to the Xenomorph.

So if Alien Covenant had NO Xenomorphs only Neomorphs i dont think most fans would be so upset, some would still want some ideas to the ORIGINS of the Xenomorph by Virtue of a Prequel should maybe cover and conclude this... but not everyone would be HELL bent on needed a Origin Spoon Fed.

A addition of David Evolving the Neomorph to something similar to the Xenomorph but different (more so than the Proto-Morph) or by Evolving the Neomorph to be a Hybrid that is more Neomorph than Xenomorph but have them come from Eggs, these could allow Fans to Ponder if SIMILAR was done in the past to Create the Eggs.

Likewise another Prequel where a Mission goes to LV-223 and either we have similar to Prometheus (infections) but we see more of a End Product... or they come across the Deacon and have it Infect Humans with something a bit different, rather than show Deacon laying Eggs.

Then have like Deacon like Monsters vs Humans... then i think this too would please Fans.... and not everyone would be like i wanna see Queens.. we dont need them in the traditional sense.

It remains that SOME Fans expected more clues to LV-426, and not Necessarily needing to see Traditional Xenomorphs or a Queen...   A Return to LV-223 could give something different but then provide more clues to LV-426 (if we ignore what Alien Covenant was doing with David).

PS!

I am Sorry if i use Bold to highlight some points and CAPS these are intended to Highlight things, as otherwise people would get LOST among my word after word and not pick out certain Important points.

Its not intended to come across as FORCING my views and opinions and i am Sorry if it comes across as such!

Well he did a great job at directing it and to get Giger there, at least he was a part that got Giger into it but this is not to say that he alone is behind the success of Alien. Your (daliens) post makes it look like Scott was behind most but to me it is a team-work so I think that you over-estimate Scott’s contribution.

We also need to mention Giger, Cobb, and O’Bannon I think those have the most influence on it. They are some of those that made Alien great so I do not think that it is right to make it look like someone is more important than the other since it is about team-work.

I will second what Gavin said, he was a part that made Alien great but now he acts like it is all about him (to quote Gavin “with his series of prequel movies he has staked ownership on the entire franchise, ownership he cannot claim IMO.”) and while also coming up with really crappy ideas story-wise. Some things are having David responsible for the Xeno, favoring a mad robot before the engineers and the monster.

“Fox put the brakes on Scott's Alien: Awakening, with Stacey Snider shooting down Scott's plans to produce an AI-centric war of the worlds...”

If that is the case that Fox stopped it then it was a good choice. I would refuse to watch a movie about a mad robot, screw that.

The Engineers are interesting, I would rather watch a movie about that than a movie about Xenos and androids.