"Aliens" , the worst "Alien movie" ever

I like AVPR better than AVP 04, yeah it has a direct to video quality but I grew up on both hollywood movies and direct-to-video movies. Used to watch alot of sci-fi original movies back in the day.

As for the rest, well said Big Dave

When I saw Alien, I was 15 years old and it was 1982. That's when I wanted an explanation above all else. And when I saw Aliens, I was excited at first. Hooray for action, combat, explanation. That's what the success of Aliens is based on. JC knew exactly what he was doing.

But as the years went by, I, who loved Alien despite my initial enthusiasm, suddenly understood the tragedy that Aliens caused for the original Alien.

RS quite deliberately left out the explanation. Alien is a de facto gothic horror film. Humans have no chance of survival, although they don't know it at first. The audience doesn't know why or what it's all about. And that's the amazing thing.

There's a spaceship. Who built it? When was it built? We'll never know. There's a dead pilot. Something killed him from the inside. No other crew. The next storyline will explain why. If Nostromo hadn't taken off, the situation would have repeated itself. A dead body with bones outside and no one around.

Now that I think about it in the discussion, it's better that Alien didn't include the scene with Dallas and Brett's cocoons. It left a mystery. By the way, the alien ship wasn't carrying eggs. Kane clearly says "It's a cave, hot as the tropics". So the alien ship landed over the egg cave instead of the pyramid.

It's a good thing there were no hints. It remained a mystery. I think Ripley's words "they probably wanted the monster for the armaments factory" is a deliberate hoax. The command in the Mother is not to fly to a specific planet. It's a command to investigate ANY source of intelligent life and import a sample. Unfortunately, Aliens uses this phrase to build a story to confuse the viewer.

Alien is a polished gem, and anything extra already cancels it out. Even the cocoon scene. The goal is total mystery. No hint of explanation.

There's a similar case in the history of literature. E A Poe and his book on A G Pym. The hero reaches the South Seas at a time when the existence or size of Antarctica was unknown. And when the mystical atmosphere is at its peak a giant white glowing figure appears and the book ends. That's all we learn.

Jules Verne did not understand this Poe's idea of deliberately not revealing the point or wanted to capitalize on it and wrote the novel The Ice Sphinx where the expedition to Antarctica explains everything. The death of Pym, making a mystical figure into an ice stump looking like a sphinx, etc. Someone was happy and the explanation.

Back to RS. The creation of Prometheus and Covenant were his biggest failures. He decided to suppress the other movies of the original Alien and shattered the mythology with more nonsense than one would expect. He got tangled up in his own thoughts and got stuck in them.

Yes, Aliens was the gateway to the creation of the Alien universe. Hence the many video games, comics and various sequels, etc. For me, Alien will always remain as a one-off. Untouchable. Mount Everest. And everything around it whether Aliens , , Alien 3, AvP or Covenant are just avalanches that have fallen from its slopes. The mountain would remain a mountain even if a thousand avalanches fell from it.

All the attempts to figure out "how it was" are the acts of children who want to know more and so they make stuff up. Fabulating. Usually to their own detriment  

1) Where did the eggs come from in the cave? We don't know.
2) why and where did the alien ship come from? We don't know.
3) Was the Alien intelligent or was it driven by perfect instincts? We don't know.

The sad thing is, after Scott built such a perfect structure, he joined the others who tried to destroy it for money. To no avail. In this, Alien is truly indestructible and has infected countless writers and audiences even without eggs. And it remains what it was meant to be. A mystery.

"That First Time we see the Derelict, the Pilot Chamber and Pilot, the Egg Cargo Hold.... this to me is ONE of the GREATEST Set of Scenes in Sci-Fi History."

Indeed. And those scenes are utterly... alien!

@Andy77

Well i have to agree with a LOT of what your Saying... with ALIEN it was Mysterious a ENIGMA....there was a LOT that we just Dont Know!  And so IF you ONLY go and Watch the Theatrical Release and you do-not look at NOTHING ELSE... no other Source, Comments, Concepts, Drafts.

Then there is a LOT of Mystery.... and the PROBLEM you have when you do any Sequels is the Stuff it could SHOW would NOT match with Everyone's Speculation to WHAT the Answers would be.

As ALIEN was ALONE... then Every Fan can Speculate, Dream or Wish for WHAT they would Think/Like... but WHEN someone makes Sequels and Prequels then the Answers or things they go to SHOW will NEVER Please everyone...

WHY i had Mentioned the Movie THE THING.... this was the same as ALIEN with the Mystery etc... and so in Hindsight i think had the 2011 Prequel had Never Been Made then the ORIGINAL would have had more of that Enigma/Magic and Mystery.

Lets say we had a THING Prequel thats SET BEFORE the 2011 Movie...  You have a Humanoid Species who are Genetically Engineering stuff and come up with a VIRUS.... this Overruns their Planet and Teaches them to NOT go and Play God... we show Survivors of the World running away to Flying Saucers to Escape and we see that ONE of them Decides to Head to Earth.... but then Reveal ONE of the Crew is a THING and Kills the others... and Mutates into the FORM that was DUG from the ICE in the 2011 Prequel.

Then you make a Sequel to The Thing where McReady is in a Mental Institute he is Informed by someone that the Military have the Space Ship and have a Sample of the DNA of the Organism....  McReady breaks out and then goes on to STOP the Outpost who are trying to Experiment with the VIRUS/Organism.

These could MAYBE go and Work.... but they could also Bomb! or maybe they are SO SO... but in any Case you would get some PURIST who would Dislike the IDEA that you are Making Prequels/Sequels to the ORIGINAL, were as the BEST THING would had been to have JUST the Original.

But to go back to a FEW things..

I think that YES with ALIEN it was Ambiguous, there was a LOT of Mystery.

Somethings we also Dont Know for sure would be.

The Eggs are in a Cave..... this could be Kanes Assumption.

The Space Jockey was a Skeleton.... again this could be a Assumption by Dallas.

Could the ALIEN be Killed?... again we do-not have enough to Conclude from ALIEN if it could be KILLED.

Then it comes down to STUDY with a Magnify Glass at Details, then you come up with things like thats a ODD SKELETON..... and that we are LOOKING at some STORAGE FACILITY for the Eggs that seems TOO LARGE to be Part of the SHIP and would seem more likely to be UNDERGROUND and Dug Out of a Cave etc.

What Dawned on me, even before the DVD Release and Wide Spread Internet, was that the SHIP had some Shared Aesthetic to the Xenomorph, and the PILOT had seemed Purposely Engineered to ATTACH to the Chair....

After i saw ALIENS in the 80's i was Drawn to Conclude that the Space Jockey Race had been Getting the Eggs from somewhere and STORING them either in a Lower Cargo Hold (thats Buried) or a Underground Storage Facility.

But what BUGGED ME (No Pun Intended) was the Xenomorph Hive did seem to Aesthetically Connect to the Egg Chamber and Derelict Ship.. and so i was ALWAYS WONDERING...... as to WHY...

Either ONE comes from the Other or Same Source.

1) Xenomorphs are Engineered on to Obtain the Derelict Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.

2) The Space Jockey Engineer both the Derelict/Cargo Hold and the Xenomorph.

3) That the Space Jockey, Derelict, Cargo Hold and Xenomorph are Created/Engineered by something ELSE we have YET to see.

The ONE THING that Definitely Stood out for me with ALIEN was that SPECIAL ORDER 937 to me had Indicated the Company had SOME knowledge of what they MAY be dealing with.

I think Ripley would be aware of any Company Policy to Investigate Worlds they come Across that had LIFE... she seemed Really Pissed Off about Discovering that the Company had KNOWN they are going to Investigate something.  So its NOT that Special Order means the Company knows 100% what they was getting into... but would seem the could be Aware that something is ON the Moon and they want to get a SPECIMEN without the Crew (Apart from Ash) having any Knowledge about.

Of course we can do the analysis. But every analysis is based on films and material that were made AFTER the other Alien films were made. Aliens brings in conspiracy theory, Alien 3 brings in the possibility of mutation by host / later on RS actually used this for both Covenant and Prometheus. But all of this material comes from the films AFTER Aliens none of it comes from BEFORE Aliens. This loses the essence of where the searchers are looking for the essence. Would they have thought of this or that idea BEFORE these movies?

I doubt anyone would have doubted for a second that it was an alien skeleton before seeing Prometheus flat. After all, the inspiration for the skeleton is found in Planet of the Vampires. The crazy suit idea is probably the stupidest I've ever seen.

The resemblance, I can easily explain. H.R. Giger was tasked with creating everything. The complete lifecycle of Alien, the Spaceship, I recommend the book H.R. Giger ALIEN Giger painted Biomechanoid style, in all his works we find elements of sex, death and technology. It is quite laughable where we find elements of female genitalia in his paintings. Yes and in many places in the film... I'll give you a hint, facehugger, alien spaceship entrances.

He just had his own style. And Scott was captivated. So he didn't interfere. That's why the cave is so close in design to the ship. Giger was a genius, and without his Alien, the film would have lost xy percent of its quality. If there was a weird octopus running around, it probably wouldn't be the same as the monster without eyes.

Giger's world is fascinating, I recommend the Necronomicon. Alien and his other books. Perfect. So I wouldn't look for a deeper idea. It's just that the design was used. The pyramid was supposed to look like that, there were even hieroglyphic characters and drawings, you can easily find that too.

In the Mother the whole point of the secret message was simple, BRING THE alien lifeform EVEN IF EVERYONE WAS TO DIE. that's why it was kept secret, Ripley's words about the armory are more of a joke. The clause said: If you find anything that indicates intelligent life, you must investigate, or no bonus. And the secret addendum for the android was:IF YOU FIND SOMETHING IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT KILLS THE POSSESSION... that's why the android was there. That clause has been in there for a long time, no one on the crew is surprised when Ash says it, Parker is just pissed. We can speculate that the order AT WHATEVER HAPPENS was given later, and an android was added to the crew there in case of bioinfection. The organism may contain viruses, etc.
But of course anyone can make up any theory they want. The sequel to The Thing is a tragedy on the level of Aliens :D but I understand it's good for earnings money. That's why I enjoy Alien vs Predator, it's not playing at anything. Just like Godzilla vs Kong. Also absolute nonsense, but entertaining. If Superman and Alien Queen ever fight, I have no problem with it... 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Andy77

Correct me if I am WRONG but didn't the "CAVE" look ARTIFICIAL to you, looked more like a CARGO BAY then a CAVE and it had the same AESTHETICS as the DERELICT

I don't want to correct you. That's just Giger's style. He used to paint and sculpt and stuff like that. As I wrote. If anyone else had designed it no doubt the ship and the cave would be different. Not so with Giger.

BTW it is Kane and no one else that says it is a cave BUT for Kane they had to get Dallas and Lambert down. If there was any doubt it would have shown up in the dialogue. There's no such thing. I don't care what other movies have to say about this subject but I think it's there too.

I don't care what RS invented in Prometheus and Covenant, he created his own universe based on the thesis that the skeleton of the pilot is the spacesuit and the Alien was created by David after many experiments.

So yes, I understand you. But I have to base it on reality. Which is the words

1)It's been dead for a long time. It's fossilized.
The bones are bent outwards, it must have exploded inside.
2) There's a cave, a cave. It's as hot as the tropics.

That completely precludes interpreting a corpse as a spacesuit with any logic. More: 

The ship was open. The planet was freezing well below zero. It was freezing inside spaceship too. The team's breaths are changing into steam. There's also a hole in the floor of the ship. No door. The floor is burned through with acid. I mean, if it was part of the ship, it would be freezing inside. But the conditions in the cave are different. It's warm. It's not maintained by the wreck's systems. It's the alien system. It was originally supposed to be in the pyramid. That was scrapped for the money, leaving the cave. But again, logically. If the Alien was the original species on the planet. It built the pyramids, and the pyramid was scrapped because of the money, so there's a cave on the planet instead of a pyramid. And that's where Alien's conditions are.

I know Giger was supposed to make the two environments distinctly different. He didn't. Someone thought the plot of the original Alien would be so ruined by the sequels, etc.

look at Gigers paintings. You will understand. 

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/the-derelictpyramidsilo/

Giger style or not, the cavern looked artificial

You're right. After all, it's a cheaper version of the original pyramid. That is, the structures built by the Aliens.

You're right. After all, it's a cheaper version of the original pyramid. That is, the structures built by the Aliens.

I think we CANT get to DRAWN into WHAT was Supposed to be, but more so WHAT we Actually Got.

And so YES there was supposed to be a Pyramid and there was Various Murals on the Walls......

By the TIME they got HR Giger on-board then the Pyramid had become a HR Giger Inspired Design (based off his Unused Work for DUNE). I get what your trying to CONVEY in that DUE to Budget/Time they Could-Not go and have a Separate Egg Silo/Pyramid.  So they Reused the Pilot Chair SET.....

HOWEVER the Concept Art for the Egg Chamber had a Similar Aesthetic to the Interior of the Derelict, it would seem it was a Case of RE-USE the Pilot Chamber for the Egg Chamber.  But they DID both at Concept Stage (HR Giger) have a Similar Appearance.

I Understand that in Earlier Drafts then the SHIP they First Encounter is NOT of HR Giger Design, in Earlier Drafts it was ALIEN, in the Drafts when David Giler and Walter Hill became Involved (it was a Earth Ship) the Dead Crew Described as Skeletal and (HUMAN) The Egg Silo/Pyramid a RED CYLINDER. And Kane Describes the Interior as a "Cave or some-thing below" (This was one of the Hill/Giler Drafts that Introduced ASH).

Then they Combined Parts of O'Bannons with their Draft, where the Space Ship was again ALIEN in Origin.  They Encounter a Structure that Eventually  leads down to a Cavernous Space....  which has Organic Protrusions from the Floors.  But the Eggs/Sacks are Discovered Near the Center of the Chamber, Kane Ponders its a Storage Area.

As they Recover Kane i am sure they are then shown at the Entrance to the Derelict and so MAYBE at this Stage of Drafts the Idea of the Egg Chamber being Part of the DERELICT seems Established?

There is another Late Draft where Kane does mention he is Below Ground Level but it also indicates the HOLE to the Cavern is INSIDE the Derelict. This Latter Draft changes to Leathery Urns again instead of Ovoid Sacks.

The Bottom Line..... the Story had Changed/Evolved that by the Time we had Production we had HR Giger and we would have had a Egg Silo and Separate Derelict Ship that had a SHARED AESTHETIC.

Budget Restraints had made it so the USED the Same SET for the Egg Chamber and Pilot Chamber (Bottom Half of Set as Tops where Matt Paintings).  The Shared Aesthetic indicating that the Egg Silo that became the Cargo Hold and the Derelict Ship were MADE by the Same Species

The Space Jockey was Specifically Designed to Connect to the Pilot Chair and FLY the Ship.

I dont think we can go and say the Egg Chamber is NOT in any way Connected to the Derelict Ship and its Pilot....  PURELY because HR Giger had Designed them.  But Each Person is Entitled to their Own Opinion.

I Stand By the Intention that WHO EVER had Built the Egg Chamber had also Built the Derelict Ship.....   Even IF we ONLY go by the Movie Itself.

However....doing so....

We cant Confirm/Prove that WHOEVER had Built the Egg Chamber and Derelict

1) Had Created/Engineered the Eggs or NOT.

2) Was the Space Jockey Race (they could have been Enslaved by who Created the Egg Chamber and Derelict).

I think that Originally and i mean Prior to Shooting that the Inside of the Egg Silo may have Appeared like a Cavernous Cave to Kane but he also said OR SOMETHING... so he was maybe NOT like 100%, at some Stage in the Drafts it seems Indicated this Cavern/Egg Chamber was UNDERGROUND.

THIS TOPIC.... is maybe Easier to Discuss the Space Jockey but there have been others.

The aesthetics of the derelict ship and egg chamber I believe connects the two scenes together. I mean why would an unrelated cave that resembles the interior of the derelict not be connected to the Space Jockey? You can't just say its HR Giger's style and leave it at that! Because why isn't the entire planetoid not having the same Giger style? Hmmmm?

I guess I don't approach it so scientifically and I don't try to search and uncover the mystery. My view is (after xy time spent searching for "how it actually happened" ) without trying to explain it.

The original idea was clear. The alien ship landed as an exploration vehicle much like we did on the moon. It discovered a bizarre formation full of eggs. One of the explorers was attacked by a facehugger and brought the embryo into the ship. There, a familiar Nostromo scenario  occurred. The alien wiped out the crew, no matter how large. In Ash's words, he was indestructible. Okay maybe incredibly resilient, capable of constant self-repair. There were hints in the pyramid that it wasn't an animal. But it happened may be milions of years in past.

There just wasn't the money to carry out the plan. And no time. They started trying to figure it out. Idea after idea after idea. But it all came down to a lack of money and time. Besides, there were obviously contradictions. It was a cauldron of ideas and Alien was out of control. There were a lot of crazy ideas, and in the end, miraculously, a unique idea was born. As the ideas crossed there remained an unfinished idea for Alien germs from Dallas and Brett. It was deleted.

But another time the idea of alien bio-weapons left only Ripley's sentence. But the result was a mix that was ultimately perfect. No visible fight just a hint. Dallas' gun was empty. He had to fight the Alien and the flamethrower wasn't enough. The flames of the rocket won't burn the Alien. Another hint that there was a fight, but the flamethrower wasn't enough. Ash's words about not being able to destroy the Alien (with the crew's weapons?) at least suggest he was pretty solid.

There's just a lot of ideas coming together here and none of them finished. And that's why so many possible interpretations. Ultimately, Scott used them in Covenant. Too bad there won't be another Covenant where Scott MAY have followed through on his idea. Maybe he doesn't want to and wants to leave room for the imagination.

The result of Alien is simple. X possible hints as it were, no instructions. And that is the correct conclusion. You, the viewer, have the imagination to make up your own mind. Choose your own path of how it was. My way is based on the fact that the original script was true to the Alien structure. The alien ship hit here by accident, and the crew disposal scenario. The beacon sending the message is evidence of that choice. DON'T ANYONE LAND HERE!!

That's enough for me to rule out the idea that ship was carrying the eggs himself. The structure above dead extraterrastrial is probably the device the crew used to remove the embryo from his body. And it looks bizarre and big? Well, Giger. The sentence about the armaments is either a trick question or should have been cut but was left in. We don't know what the time pressure was to reshoot the scene. Personally, I think it's a deliberate dead end. Ripley doesn't say a word in her broadcast about what she experienced. The only warning. Yet she knew it was a matter of chance that they would find her and she knew there were a number of Alien embryos and a beacon on the planetoid. It may be sending a warning, but...

Well, I'll leave it at that. I'm not supposed to learn anything except to marvel at the perfect horror movie. A stunning Alien. A fierce battle with an unequal foe, like an open-ended supernatural horror movie. And that's the way it should be. Why Scott went crazy and started making these weird explanations is a mystery to me. Potential for product? The need to undo everything everyone else has done and laugh at everything that came after Alien? Only he knows. All I know is that he absolutely failed.

You dodge my question and you seem like the type of person that would rather that Frodo never complete his journey to maintain the mystery or Harry Potter should never complete his tenor at Hogwarts or the rebels don't advanced the war against the galactic empire beyond the destruction of the death star or that we shouldn't learn how the dinosaurs are in Jurassic Park? 

"The original idea was clear. The alien ship landed as an exploration vehicle much like we did on the moon. It discovered a bizarre formation full of eggs. One of the explorers was attacked by a facehugger and brought the embryo into the ship"

That was the Original Idea indeed...

However we have to Remember that the Story/Concept had Changed as we go on.

At the TIME we had Separate Pyramid, then YES the Space Jockey to speak was the Skeletal Remains of None-Human looking Alien Species.

I am sure that MOST would Agree that HR Gigers Monster and Ship are WHAT really Stood Out....  but i dont think you can then IGNORE that the Egg Chamber has that same Aesthetic....

But as Dr Shaw had said "because that's what I choose to believe"

Once they had Started the Production the Concept of a ALIEN Species who are LONG GONE and all that Remained are their Egg/Spore Stage in their Birthing Ritual Pyramid...  that was Discovered by another Unrelated Alien Species who went to Investigate and got Infected.....

Had Changed to make the Once merely a Explorer who had Turned Up at the Wrong Place/Time....  to these Species being Connected to the Actual Organisms that was then MOVED into a Egg Chamber/Silo.

The Connection was Never Answered on Screen...as of ALIEN

I know that Kane Described the Cargo Hold as a Cave... seems like a Cave of some Sort (if i remember Correct) but we can Clearly see as he Descends that its Walls are NOT what you would Consider a Cave..... However we could Assume this is some Underground Storage Facility that was Carved Out of a Cave.

There have been Numerous Debates on here that KANES Comments and the Size of the Egg Chamber mean that its Definitely NOT Part of the SHIP..... and well YES it was Supposed to be Separate.

Actually though if the SHIP was 20ft Taller it would have FITTED with Ease....

With ALIEN we see the Crew Enter via the Openings but we do-not see a Minute by Minute Footage... well Kane Climbs up to the Pilot Chamber... it may seem he has NOT really Climbed that FAR.... but we maybe had NEVER see his Full Accent.

The Concept Work indicates the Pilot Room is Positioned below the Windowed Dome at the Top of the Derelict.

And so in the Image Above i have Scaled the Shot to match the Size of the Crew Compared to the Opening of the Derelict and Positioned the Pilot Chamber to a Approx Position.

There is Considerable Space Under the Pilot Chamber but its NOT QUITE Big Enough for the Egg Chamber but its Certainly by No Means as SMALL as People think (Derelict)

4xenotaris

I don't understand why you're writing this. Alien is a movie that has a beginning and an end. That's how the story was written, the script was written and the movie was made. A beginning and an end. It wasn't the first episode of the series.

It's hard to see how you'd feel if someone made a "sequel" to Hobbit and Smaug suddenly rose from the dead and ate the expedition. Or it turns out that there are more dragons in the cave and a vicious fight starts in which Godzilla goes up against the dragon. That's how those other Alien movies affect me.

But in the Alien universe, any nonsense is allowed. What would have infuriated LOTR fans, with the directors alien “sequel”  is every stupidity ok. Even space pirates or whatever the hell the Alien Ressurection crew is. I am affraid but curious too what will more in Alien universe  for crazy things.

I totally agree BigDave.

It was definitely not a natural cave. It's a creation of the Alien civilization. That's how I see it. I used to think it was inexplicable. Since reading the original script, I understand that it's a remnant of an Alien civilization that disappeared xy years ago but has preserved its future descendants in the form of embryos in the hope of rebuilding itself.

Perfect work and pictures, by the way. I just don't see the one above analyzing the size of the derelict. Ipad doesn't show it.