Female Engineers?

Indeed we cant be sure which way they are going...

If we look at it from the Start of the idea here is what we have.

Spaights introduced us to the Engineers Humanoid beings who seemed to seed life in a Benevolent Act it makes no identification of Elder/Engineers. 

Of Note... Seeding Ships are Pyramids.

Lindeloffs draft Makes the distinction between Elders and Engineers.

Of Note... Seeding Ships are Juggernaught Shape.

This Evolved to Prometheus where the Seeding Ship became the Teardrop and we saw the Engineer and Elders.  But the Theatrical Cut removed the Elders because Ridley Scott did not want to meet the Gods in the first movie and was a bit disappointed with how the Elder Scene came across.

so this gave us a insight of some kind of Hierarchical Order which seems to be that some Race/Being was above the Engineers, it now seems with AC we are shown the Hall of Heads which look like Elders, so these are maybe the Hierarchical Superiors 

But we dont know in what context...

1) Are they similar but a different Race who create the Engineers in their Image and so would be like the Anunnaki/Igigi and God/Angels kind of Caste System?

2) Are they more like the Greek Gods where we have Titans and Olympians where the latter are actual Children of the Titans?

3) Are the Hierarchical Order similar to how Ancient Egypt was as in the Pharaohs and Mankind.

4) Or a more simplistic approach and the Elders are just that, the very oldest and wisest of the same Race, like Tribal Elders on Earth.

Right now i would say the Superior Beings in the Hall of Heads and Sacrificial Engineer Relationship has to be one of those 4.

Shaw wonders who created them (Engineers) this would be a interesting Topic if Option 3 or 4 are what we are shown as far as the Superior Beings/Apostles in the Hall of Heads are, as we can then ponder who indeed created them.

The Source i had from over 2 years ago claimed the Order of Creation is Multi-layered and Creation did not start with the Engineers (they was created) and does not end with David (so he creates something), but they also hinted that those who created the Engineers are also not at the Top of the Chain.

As far as the Beings being Grown in Stasis Pods, i am not sure if its mentioned any place else...  But this was what the Source had claimed... They said one concept showed Pods a bit like the Matrix Scene, where Humanoid Babies where being Grown.

They did not explain the connection and who these beings are, but if indeed the LV-223 Engineers are Grown like Clones then this could be how its done.

The Source did say that David has a lot in common with the LV-223 Engineers, which explains why there was a look of pity before David got his head taken off.

I cant voucher if any of this is True, but it has made me wonder where those Human Baby Skulls came from in Alien Covenant.

As far as the Fresco...

I have always seen it as Prometheus Punishment, without getting into to deep details.  And i wonder if the result of this Punishment allowed the Engineers to witness the Birth of a Creature that they then decided to Experiment on.

Turning a Intended Punishment towards them, into a Weapon for them.

If Experiments from this, lead to the Deacon which they then considered the Perfect Creation, this would show us why the Deacon Mural is Worshiped and held in high regard.

Its a attempt to create Perfection, and also praised because it allowed Engineers to Give Birth to New Life, something which they may have Lost... or if they are Clones something which their creators had Lost or simply the Engineers purpose was to be Sacrificed to seed worlds to eventually lead to Humanoids that could Give Birth.

But the Engineers found a way they could now do so themselves, but this is not a traditional Pregnancy but sometimes to Create One Must Destroy.

@big dave - 

your theory around "the fresco" (?) is impressive.

my thinking is the way the bird faced creature is positioned it is almost like it is curled up with its head down seemingly a child like pose as if leaning in towards its parent / god.  or even a master who they are scared of.

which could connect that somehow the engineers 223 who were possibly a creation themselves, somehow managed to create something because  though they had no way of reproducing themselves (as seeders intro prometheus) they found a way by using the black goo and possibly another ingredient to create life but NOT in their own image.  and this may of been when things started to go wrong.

so if their are multiple creator / creation layers this could be another link to that ????

Hi Foxxy_User very interesting statement (I like it.) would you mind to expand into further detail on this please?

Posted Apr-24-2017 5:46 PM

The Arcturians are not asexual nor are they aliens...

Well,  I think Ridley must have copied this scene from either the Life of Brian or Monty Python and the Holy Grail, lets face it the engineers did not do 'peasant'.

I've read Alien:Sea Of Sorrows wich is considered canon as far as I am aware.

 Excerpt from the Book:

"We’re talking a find that may be bigger than anything we’ve run across since first contact with the Arcturians.”
Chatter erupted throughout the group, and Decker felt a sudden wave of excitement that washed over him like a wave. The Arcturians had been the first alien race mankind had encountered, and those initial meetings had marked a turning point for the human race."

I think this makes it clear Arcturians are not human colonists.

Not long now and we will find out, as has been put forth before they could be androgyn or a 2 sex race, i have noticed some look bewildered while looking up, some surprised and some with angry looks on their dials, can't wait to see what fully goes down in this scene.

AC official opening date here in oz is May 11, the tv stations were hammering the advert. out on monday night(fist pumping everytime it was shown during ad breaks.)lol!

@sherris

Indeed thats how  i interpreted it, the pose seems the same the way  Prometheus and the Engineer are looking down the Scar on the abdomen.

The only difference is the Fresco Creature is in a pose that seems either submissive or fetal, which could hint at some control over it.. and that it could be a offspring.

But it could mean the intended Punishment actually lead to those Engineers maybe having some control/dominion over them, it would be like someone sending a Pack of Wolves at you but then you manage to Tame them as Pets to then do your bidding.

The Source i had did say in Context to Paradise Lost Poem and how it connects, that the Event of some of the Fallen Angels being turned into Serpents as Punishment after the Fall, leads to freedom from Bondage.  I guess that can kind of fit.

Another interesting thing... is this Creature seems to look like O'Bannons idea for the Organism in Alien before they turned to HR Giger.

As far as the Arcturians they was not the first Alien, the first complex life found was in Prometheus but indeed these events was never known when Alien and Aliens was made and so its a case of the Prometheus Mission is likely a Wipe Under the Carpet Event the Company wishes to keep Secret.

Story wise it's said that Weyland went missing. Even among WY-Personnel, at least the lower ranks.

i still thinking for me, the civilisation in the city

this race are a creation like humans, created as at start of prometheus

they still have contact with their gods (unlike humans, that stopped, maybe 2000 years ago.).

the gods are the elders

there seems to be some sort of sacrifice and worship going on.

they have / had contact with engineers223 at some point as they recognise ship.  maybe that stopped for a time IF the elders and the engineers223 had a stand off or war (unknown)

i know empire said "engineer city" (or close) but i am sticking with this

big dave

thank you for the fresco detail and the pre giger pick i never knew existed. so i guess you thought that they might be more to this than a coincidence???? or no?????

another life form or ridley maybe remembered it and was used as inspiration for this creature, either way i speculating we see this creature or hear of it in alien: covenant and i hope others in more detail.

thank you

I think indeed these beings are not Engineers per-say...

Who knows... we need to remember that the Elders Scene has been cut... so IT DOES NOT EXIST.... and so while the Hall of Heads shows us similar beings, maybe we wont see what they are like.

So we wont be able to tell if they are older versions of these Humanoids on this World, or if they are older versions of the Marbled White/Grey Skinned Dark Sclera Sacrificial/LV-223 Engineers which the deleted scene Elders seemed a part of.

I think again the explantion could be if we look at Paradise as in Context to Paradise Lost and the Bible.

Paradise is not Heaven, we well in Christian Faith do not go to Paradise when we die, well as far as the place the Garden of Eden was and Adam and Eve had came from and been banished.   Paradise is thus not where the Gods come from, or where there servants the Angels do, but its a place that was created for the purpose to Create First Mankind and to be Guarded by Angels.

So if we look at it this way then it means Paradise, could be a place some Engineers watch over, but that it was  a place for the creating of Early Mankind.

So these beings have to be some off-shoot of Mankind, Previous Generation or a Generation after us.

Unless its a Huge Oversight...

The Skin and eyes ( never mind other features that was prosthetic in Prometheus) that we see in A and B do not match what we had in Prometheus with C and D

If they was going for the look of C and D on the cheap then it would not have cost much to do a E + F Contacts and as only head and face needed doing then i bet this would have only cost them what?

$100 per Actor plus costs (wages) for make up team, and so only had taken about 30 min 45 min tops per Actor in make up chair plus $70-90 worth of Black Out Contact Lenses, and if brought in bulk so enough to cover say 10-20 closer ups it would be cheaper per person.

So i cant see this having a effect on the budget and so its either a Oversight (they dont appear for long and we not expected to freeze frame and zoom in).

Or there is a reason they are different.

The Source i had did say Mankind (Modern) is the 4th or 5th Generation of Mankind and the Engineers are connected Genetically to our Evolution.

Does 1 (Elders/Engineers) and 2 Beings on Planet 4, replace 1 and 2 in the Hominoid Generations shown underneath?

Or are the Elders/Engineers classed as Two Seperate Generations or are they not even included in that Generation but from them was created 4-5 Generations in which case are Number 2 (Planet 4 beings) one of those Generations, are they number 1-4, or are they a 5th-6th (come after us).

I think its something interesting to consider.

big dave - that was amazing to me.

you have to be onto something.  

so this city is maybe where mankind was developed.

with help and guidance of the engineers223.

they have tech which allows a jugganaut to dock.  so theres a good chance these engineers 223 are a part of life here.

maybe these engineers 223 are fallen angels who either visit on occasions or once visited until they had an issue with the elders.

im still thinking the engineers 223 are creations of the elders, who visit civilisations, possibly collect offerings or at least report back to the elders with details of their progression. when the time is right they seed planets.  this is what causes them to have a stand off or war with the elders. not wanting to give the ultimate sacrifice in the name of creation.

is this where the angels become fallen angels??????????

@BigDave, you are right, the eyes of A, B and E are human eyes with whites and their skin has a pinkish tone instead of complete alabaster like the promethean engineers, are these the one's that in the fresco in the urn/head chamber with the bird ripping the guts out of thereof?

One of the engineers in the picture has a covenant landing crew hat on? Is this a subliminal joke of some kind? Unless there are multiple covenants that have already been sent to this planet?

like davids chair at the start looking like the scorpion ship, is there a hidden message here, possibly egyptian?

That pit that is in the middle of the large arena, could it be like an area for dropping in a deacon or xeno, which is then killed by the crowd? the war engineers are recognised by the peace engineers? That means they are all targets for elimination by david.

...looks for me like daniels, as seen in Trailer#2 at 0:39.

Going back to the original question... R Scott draws heavily from Bible and he probably had "Giants" in mind when he created Engineers.   Another possible analogy is Titans in Greek mythology.  I remember a passage in Bible that went something like "Giants married daughters of man."  No female Giant or Titan as far as I recall.

There were definitely females.

the Extras got paid much more than $100. (because I was one)

and it took many hours to prepare. 

wow i bet that was amazing BOZ..

Hopefully long after the movie is out, you can maybe tell us if you knew the intentions of these beings... as in are they supposed to be the same Engineers as in Prometheus.

But respect this is something that cant be answered as of yet

SUPER SPOILER! So please do not look at it or read if...well you know. So has anyone noticed one of the new Funko dolls for Alien: Covenant? Look at the body...Dr. Shaw's uniform. UGHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Happy birthday mate.

Thank you .. I'm the main bloke in that picture above..

was a good day and amazing food they serve. 

Also, I don't know anything about the engineers background. Nothing was told to us about the storyline 

Hi Boz.

Was the shoot you did filmed at Fox here in Sydney? How many extras in that scene were actual people you filmed with as compared to being put in via CGI in post?

Any behind the scenes stories/things you have that you can tell … ?

Great to have you here :)

Thank you BOZ

I think it will remain open for debate then... i do wonder if they will choose to not answer this in interviews... so it leaves a Mystery for us all to talk about.

Are these Engineers, Are they Creators of the Engineers, are they creations of the Engineers.

I think along with why we was created, and the whole Engineer History, who they also created, the Black Goo and where it came from...

I do wonder if all these will remain a Mystery like the Space Jockey was kept for nearly 33 years

pretty sure this is a female Engineer 

I think its depicting the fact that there are several lineages of Engineers.  Possibly that the ones from Prometheus were less watered down or that the Engineers have a societal sect for Warriors, Academics, etc.  

Throughout Prometheus, the image of the Engineer (large Face/Head statutes) is shown to be something that is worshiped or a shrine.  Those statues resemble the Engineers in Prometheus more so than the ones depicted in Covenant.  

"Was the shoot you did filmed at Fox here in Sydney? How many extras in that scene were actual people you filmed with as compared to being put in via CGI in post?

Any behind the scenes stories/things you have that you can tell … ?"

Hi Tonehound and thanks mate. 

No, only the costume fitting, prosthetic's  and arm shaving was done at fox studio over two separate days. 

The shooting was done at box hill near Bankstown/Yagoona way on a cold winters morning 28th June 2016. I arrived at 5:00 am where we all had to meet in a carpark to meet a shuttle bus which then transported us to another location kind of like a quarry. 

Anyway, make up took about 3.5 hours, then shooting took around 6 hours.. I stopped earlier because I pulled a hamstring with hours of continual running on cobble stones. 

After seeing the movie already I was surprised at how little was actually used for the movie when you consider the amount of people involved for that days shooting and the amount of scenes that must have gotten cut. 

Absolute amazing amount of resources used, just mammoth in my opinion.. Probably small for them but, wow!

I alone was paid $450, there were around 50 of us. They chose me to yell: "RUN" because I was the ugliest. 

And yes, there were sheilas in there 100%.. I'll send photo of one getting her head shaved that I took during shave day, and whatever else I have on my phone. 

This is one of the girls... sorry, i don't know why they're coming out wrong way around. 

Whoa what an experience that must have been! ^^^^^

btw when you said you screamed "run!"", was it in English? Do you know if these humanoids are suppose to be different from the Prometheus Engineers?

Dude!,  they look pretty sick, is there more bts Engineers pics