Alien/Prometheus Universe Ratings then and now?

For me its hard to rate Prometheus at this time because it's an unfinished story. There are unresolved issues. It's a masterpiece with some flaws. Those flaws used to bother me a lot more than they do now. Although I am obsessed with the movie and continue to watch it, and analyse it, I can't give it a 10. Something lower than that. Maybe an 8 or 9.

ALIEN is a perfect masterpiece and always gets a 10.

ALIENS is not so visionary, or groundbreaking, so it gets an 8 because I always enjoyed watching it.

ALIEN 3 and ALIEN 4 were both big disappointments, and each get a 4.

And like Necronom 4, I won't count "the other 2 things" either.  

For me:~

Prometheus~ 8/10 Like sp_jockey, I've watched it over and over, and changed my mind about certain elements. Guess I've become obsessed with it over time! Ridley remains The Visualist Master! The story has just begun, I'm intrigued and excited to see what comes next.

ALIEN~ 10/10 Still obsessed with it and still my No.1 Sci-fi movie! A Ridley-verse and Giger-world of greatness!

ALIENS~ 5/10 Slightly downgraded. It's a great action movie, but was the death knell for the Giger-Alien organism!

ALIEN 3~ 7/10 Has grown on me over time. Had immense potential, Fincher intended to bring back the alien-ness. Ruined by Giler and Hill!

ALIEN RESURRECTION~ 2/10 Has never felt like part of the Alien Universe to me. Gave us the worst abomination in creature history; The Newborn, WTF was that? I am no fan of Woodruff and Gillis! 

For me its a Tricky one.... Prometheus to me is a movie about bold ideas, one that looked like it was going to give us a bold movie, that then after it was edited and things changed, left us with something that could have been better, a movie that had all the makings of a Classic, but its as some have said the seeds are sowed here for something great and its a half done at best project and by that we have a jigsaw that has missing parts and i am sure it needs at least another movie before things will add up more, and maybe two.

So i think once we have Part 2 and maybe 3, but once they have finished i am sure then Prometheus will then fit in perfectly and so would raise.

so i have to rate the movie by how it is, and not how it could have been or how it would become.. now before i get bashed.... Prometheus is a funny old movie, it for me is no Classic like Star Wars or even Alien, yet i find myself watching Prometheus over and over, the same goes with The Thing 1982 a disapointing movie back in the day that became a Cult Classic and while not my favorite movie.. like Prometheus its one i watch over and over... and maybe just maybe the fact that both movies do not have everything adding up in a more straight forwards patern that other movies do.. say Aliens really is why we have to watch them over and over?

So here it goes, and bare in mind i keep in mind how the movie looked for its time, so yes Alien the ships inside looks dated with some stuff especially the Computers etc.. but we have to remember thats what the effects could do back in 70's and if we had long distance ships built in the 70's and 80s they would look the same inside, and so not like 2100 + but we cant use that against the movie... With Prometheus as i said it is a movie that is unfinished, while Ridley felt it could be a stand alone, i feel its more like a Lord of the Rings Trilogy... and that if you had the first movie while Good, once you had the Trillogy every movie then added together and improved as a package.

ALIEN - 9/10 A Masterpeice that still holds its ground today.

ALIENS - 8 /10 Good follow up but more of a action movie than Sci Fi.

ALIEN 3 - 5/10 Some nice ideas, but then just not as good a movie as could.

ALIEN R - 4/10 Good for a bit of action some interesting ideas, some very flawed ideas..

I liked the idea of the clones... but i fail to see the logic in how they can clone someone who is pregnant.. to me a clone would just produce a pure Ripley or if she infected then a mutant but could not by the Ripley carrying a Xeno Queen..

Had they recovered Xeno DNA and reverse Engineered it then it could have worked... but then what about Ripley?   Well we gonna ask that again in Alien 5...

PROMETHEUS 6/10 Movie set up to answer stuff, but then gave more questions, potential plot ramifications are great if done correct, to me its a unfinished movie, its not a Alien.. or even Aliens...

Its like a Lord of the Rings, or Hobbit if they only did the 1st movies... Prometheus needs a sequel or 2... then its rating will go high.

Potentially the movie in some cut would get a 7-8 from me, but in the theatrical one its a 6...

Before anyone thinks its harsh, we all have own oppinions and also people need to look at my ratting system.... 

(10) Perfection, (9) Excelent (8) Very Good (7) Good (6) Above Average (5) Average (4) Below Average (3) Poor (2) Very Poor (1) Terrible 

Now i would usually rate movies out of 100... rounded down to nearest 5

ALIEN - 90

ALIENS - 75

ALIEN 3 - 55

ALIEN R - 40

PROMETHEUS - 65

Im similar on some things to you:

Alien : 9.8/10

Aliens : 8/10

Alien 3: 4/10

Alien 4: 3/10

Prometheus: 6/10 

All pretty much the same then and now I suppose I am a bit shocked no one has come close to alien not sure weather that is because of the industry changing or just it was that good! And no PRometheus is not like blade runner its not getting better with time :P ! Unless some kind of crazy long term hidden plot was there all along and part 2 and 3 will reveal it somehow...timetravel blahblah lol :O !

Why has no one come close to Alien?

Pretty much because every Fresh Movie idea that is somewhat Original, its hard to really raise that bar again... not just Alien, we could look at Predator, Terminator etc..

Generally the 2nd movies do well, mainly because they get fans wanting more of the same as the first movie was great, but they do not usually beat the first movie, often they struggle to match it (Can Prometheus 2 break this mold?).

Sadly when a 3rd movie comes out thats when it usually goes down hill a bit... most franchises 3rd movie is not a touch on the 1st two... Then we get reboots and sometimes they work, sometimes they fail but  many always have us thinking the Original was best.

There are exceptions to this rule, often Comedy movies, including those that dont follow same plots..  Carry Ons for example, and also some other franchises like Indian Jones and lastly movies that are set as part of a Bigger Story usually do well.. i.e Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings etc

And so Alien Franchise has this same problem, Alien was such a great Original movie, the sequel was very well suited way to expand the franchise (but may not been the route Ridley would have taken).  By the time we got to Alien 3 they killed off all the old Cast so it was left with just Ripley and we are led to that the LV 426 Derelict and Hadleys hope are destroyed, so the only way to get a Xeno is via the Xeno in Alien 3 and the Queen Ripley was carrying...

No soon as that movie ended by killing off Ripley it then left a very very tricky situation and that was they either have to explore Xeno DNA or Eggs found elsewhere.. but no Ripley or bring Ripley back but then explain how she comes back after Alien 3...

Thus was born Alien Resurection... which like Alien 3 was  following the same path that the only Xeno DNA is contained via Ripley...

This is a problem that Alien 5 will no doubt face, it could split a lot of fans and be hard to do... we could be faced with a good alternative, in which does that leave out the 3rd and 4th movies, or do they somehow connect it....  and if the movie does not explain that then for some a Good movie would lead to Alien 3 and R being ignored, and if it Flops then it would just be another stain on the Franchise like maybe the AVP movies.

The Problem Prometheus Faces was likewise....

We had not seen another Alien movie for a long time, and where does the franchise go after Alien Resurection.. now we are led to again no Xenos and only a Hyrbid Ripley and after the foul taste some fans had with Alien R its how do they better the story with a Alien 5.

But Prometheus gave many fans hope... finally we can maybe get some insight into how these Xenos came about and what connection with the Derelict and the Space Jockey?

And what about the Space Jockey..? what if they explore that....!

So right away the Expectations was huge, and the movie started out similar to the above, Spaight Draft, it kind of covered some of the stuff but then opened up a MASSIVE MASSIVE PLOT DEVICE....

The Space Jockeys are a giant Humanoid Race of Godlike beings who play their hands in created life and experimenting on life... and may not only created us but played a part in our Evolution not only Genetically but Technologically... never mind what else they could have created...

This is a Huge Scope for a Franchise, but a bit of a poisoned Challace and i think they knew where that was going as far as its now pretty hard to explore the Answers left behind and maybe why some stuff is getting tonned down/left out.. (Many deleted and even un shown scenes).

I think the fans thirst for answers and connections is why the movie had a Huge Expectation that was not done justice, but Ridley wanted to go a different route and what they did was offer a intriging story but again leaving many new questions.

I think Ridley wants to do his own thing, but they now face a situation how do we do the movie justice, and go our own way yet some how maybe answer some of those burning questions..

Or do they not care and will leave them unanswered and the plot holes...

We can only find out, but i do think they would have a 3rd movie on the cards that would do that, as Ridley did say when he is finished everything should slot into place.

So while this may seemed to had gone off topic....

I think its a sign that a 2nd and 3rd movie may surely not only improve on Prometheus but after they are out, they will help become the missing peices in the Prometheus Jigsaw and ultimately see Prometheus Score as far as how we see the movie get raised.

Alien: 10/10 (used to be 9/10 some years ago)

Aliens: 10/10

Prometheus: 9/10 (was 8/10 in 2012)

Aliens Resurrection: 8/10 (used to be 6/10)

Alien³: 7/10 (used to be 6/10)

Long story short, I like them all and all of them have resisted multiple viewings and the passage of time.

The franchise is a marvel of science fiction.

Prometheus 10/10 (up from 9 after watching the 'furious gods' special edition)

Alien 10/10 (same)

Aliens 10/10 (same)

Alien 3 7/10 (up from 5)

Alien 4 8/10 (up from 6)

Like them all.

I'm very visual and the opening of Prometheus is just sublime....my favorite opening sequence since 'Star Wars'.

Thing is big dave I believe if Prometheus was done in the same realistic virtually no plot hole way alien was it could of come close to alien I guess thats partly why I have stuck around - amazing idea just poorly executed :( . At least so far...it is a three part thing...at least I hope it will be! It just seems like many films these days dont have the strong drive of the past - too many people messing with the making I guess its partly the money and the size of the projects now - the directors maybe just cant control it all enough :P ... And no god like directors at the mo to name a few things...anyway thats a biiig subject! Heres hoping some of the new sci fis break the mold...

Well you are very right, there is only just a few things that if they had been done or changed that would have led to a movie that surely would have been EPIC.

This is things i feel could have been done better, or not changed to had made the movie much much better in my eyes anyway..

1) Scale of the Engineers... had they gone the Lord of the Rings/Hobit route i.e they made 5.5ft tall Actors apear as 3.5ft Tall Hobbits, the same done to make 7ft Actors 9-10ft Engineers would have made the Scale a lot better, as it is we are left thinking these guys are half size of the Space Jockey.

2) Not had tonned down some Xeno elements and clues, and maybe even added a few more... these Clues i mean keep the alternative Fifield, maybe had gone with the Baby Face or other more Xeno DNA varients...  Added a observation by David on the Mural, maybe David could have said.. seems like some kind of Ritual Sacrifical Importance... then if we kept the Sacrificial Bowl on the Altar and had Holloway say, you could be right David look at this Cup on this Altar....   Some kind of Ritual importance... have Shaw or religious.

Little added comments like that would have gone a long way.

David could after Shaw has taken the Trillobite baby out, we could had a latter Scene, where David makes a remark to Shaw that the thing she had taken out seems to be similar to what these Engineers had encountered, or appears to be similar to what i had seen on that Mural.

Maybe not as Spoon fed, but certainly a bit more detail....

3) I felt that the pacing of the movie did not add up and you could see, that it looked like some scenes had been cut and re-aranged, evidence is with the deleted Scene, well Trailer Scene that showed Shaw reversing over Fifield, and also a alternative Hanger Scene where Weyland was making his way to the RV just as Fifield was attacking.

4) Some of the deleted scenes should have stayed, maybe including the Elders?  But i definately think the shots of the Engineer leaving the crashed Juggernaught to the Lifeboat and maybe the Final Battle Scene could have been edited in a different way to still leave the Voilin Girl and even picking up the Bibble or what ever book it was scenes.

What i mean is if the pace of the movie and coherent nature of the movie was better it would have made more sense, but these was due to re-cut and edit procedure but also compared to how straight forward Spaights draft was, or many movies for that matter, it seemed that Prometheus had a hint of the TV Series Lost about it..

I think such changes as above would have definately for me improved it to a 8/10

@Djamelameziam; Quote "It just seems like many films these days dont have the strong drive of the past - too many people messing with the making I guess its partly the money and the size of the projects now - the directors maybe just cant control it all enough."

I completely agree! However, i do feel that Ridley tried to get away from all that with Prometheus. However, he did put too much trust in too many people, who let him down. But i do feel that in time Prometheus will be viewed pretty much in a similar light to 2001.

I think the main reason why i appreciate Prometheus more now, is because it was a brave step for Ridley to try to make it an original film which had an already established story. If left upto the likes of Giler, Hill and Caroll, it probably would have been more akin to something like Starship Troopers.

Regardless, i do feel that vision and imagination is horribly lacking in Hollywood! Unfortunately, the experimental attitude of the 70's and 80's has gone.

Prometheus does have this Blockbuster Avante Garde feel to it, the weirdest thing. I give it 9/10. I also give Alien 9/10, for different reasons. For me anymore the rest are negligible.

True i think Prometheus is a bit of 2001 and The Thing both movies became cult classics and ratings went higher years after the movies release... and as i said i feel once a Part 2 and 3 come out and are done better due to budget, and answer some of the stuff we never had answers to but not in a spoon fed way, then these one or two movies will be that missing peice of the Jigsaw that will make Prometheus rise in terms of reviews and rattings.

I know Ridley would have liked more of a Budget with Prometheus and from the offset, the movie was set up as a teaser so that if it did well then Fox would fund a 2nd movie with a budget depending on the reception of the 1st movie.

Some things had to be cut that maybe Ridley would have wanted to had shot, had the budget allowed.

Well one more re write might have done it but the status of lideloff probably meant it would never go further. Also Ridley I'm afraid has not been making the best of films lately which does point a finger at him. I always watch his stuff no matter what it is. And I do feel like he always tries new things when sometimes the old ways would have been best. Anyway fingers crossed is all we have I guess...

Interestingly the awful Ridley film of moses is top of the other pirate bay right now. It seems even if the films are bad the subject matter is making them popular! Pretty sure it did quiet well due to subject matter as well in box office :P ... 28 percent on rotten toms :S