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Ambiguity vs vagueness...and other stuff.

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Gimm-e

MemberOvomorphNovember 12, 2013
I watched Prometheus again since I had nothing better to do and wrote some things down. First have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiguity Now, from what I can make of this, ambiguity means that a concept/statement/ object…that is ambiguous, can be interpreted in TWO different ways. Not 3 or 15. Then it becomes vague. The eggs in ALIEN are a perfect example of ambiguity: are they a bio-weapon or not? Simple as that. It’s one or the other. We don’t get an answer to this question in the entire Quadrilogy. And remember that the Queen also came from an egg and that Hudson’s statement: ‘How can they cut the power, they’re animals, man’ doesn’t count either because he’s just a ‘grunt’. No offense Hudson. The only thing that comes to mind that’s ambiguous is the freaking cover: Is the head a representation of the engineers’ power or ours? Here are some things in Prometheus that are not ambiguous, but vague/ unclear: *The green egg/crystal/ bio-weapon/ ornament. *The alien-mural: multiple explanations. *The black goo: I’m not even going to start with this one… *Why did Weyland hide on the ship the entire time? *Shaw crying in front of the mirror: I got this from the ‘everything wrong with Prometheus’-clip that’s on Youtube: ‘ Is she crying about her dead dreams, her dead lover or her dead faith?’ *The engineer ripping David’s head off: Was it because they asked him to tell them the secret for eternal life? Was he angry that they woke him up/ didn’t get his coffee? Or that they made an android and that he felt threatened by our inventiveness. Did David offend him? Did he think David was a Nazi? Lol Other flaws: http://www.moviemistakes.com/film9292 Some others I noticed: *Shaw looks through a crevice in the rock and by the time Charlie gets there, it’s already a massive hole sealed with plastic. She even has already dated the drawing to be 35.000 years old. O.o *In 2089 some people don’t even know what a Christmas tree is anymore… *Scientists can’t tell if a structure is natural or not… *’JESUS. THE SUNLIGHT IS HEATING THE WATER…’ WELL DUH!! *’Ellie, I’m not wearing this thing anymore (helmet)’ Was it really that uncomfortable to wear? Well, then die if you really want to take the risk. *’Just another tomb?’ What the hell, dude? *Holloway doesn’t care at ALL about David’s safety, yet he’s the one who yells at him that they’re leaving. *no contamination protocols whatsoever… *How come there’s cell growth on the engineer’s head? * DNA match? As in: ‘when you look for the culprit of a crime’- DNA-match? *Holloway getting drunk, ah sr*w it! Conclusion: Man, this is may be my third of fourth viewing but this is amateur hour…at best! Never have I come across so many stupid faults in a movie of this caliber that has such a famous name in cinema-land attached to it. Not even the amazing visuals can save it. Prometheus is vague as **** and definitely not as ‘ambiguous’ as some people believe it to be. This movie has only one leg it can stand on and it barely even succeeds in doing that. It NEEDS a sequel to give answers to the billions of questions raised here. It cannot stand on its own because the story can be interpreted in a million ways. I still can’t wrap my mind around the fact how unbelievably unsophisticated it all turned out to be. It raises SO many questions, they’re now having trouble to write a sequel, of which I’m not surprised at all. I honestly don’t get that nobody mentioned these flaws in basic movie-making 101 to Ridley. I tried to list it all but it’s just too much and I gave up when I wasn’t even halfway. And we are being spoon fed: Janek says it’s a weapons-facility. BAM!
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BigDave
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Everyone has their own opinions and are entitled to them.... The movie however is a failure as a stand alone movie, by that anyone who watches it who has never seen a Alien movie or heard of the franchise and even those who vaguely seen one, well these people would for the most part see this movie and go.... WTF! But if your a follower of the Franchise then the movie is not so bad, a disappointment yes but it would be such for many for different reasons. When you have such a Classic, then sequels and prequels are bound to not live up to the Originals and that goes with Prometheus, The Thing, Star Wars just to name a few. Anyway for me yes some of the movie had Ambiguity or Vagueness, and thats fine.... but some of it was ridiculousness in the writing but then Lindeloff style often can lead to things being strange and not making sense or contradicting itself. For the most part though the plot and plot points and the clues or lack off, i think we GREAT because without the way they was done we would not have much to discuss about the movie.. Yes some Character use was dumb.... But for me the biggest problem was simply that there was so much more to this movie that was shot, in a intended order. That we never ended up seeing as first intended instead we get a cut that to me not only cuts some scenes down or out but also adds some scenes in slightly different order and some scenes have alternatives that, well make less sense than the other intended ones. When we see many movies Deleted Scenes most of the time you can go, yes i know why those scenes was cut and agree they was best left out and even some deleted scenes was stupid as far as fit in with the movie... But PROMETHEUS is one of those movies with vastly lots of stuff cut and that most of it actually would have made the movie far more better and far less confusing... So while the OP may argue a case of Ambiguity vs Vagueness, well i think what we do have is CONFUSING to that mix and this is a combination of the alternate scenes that was added at the expense of others left out and also Lindeloffs style of writing sometimes.... for example some of the confusing and contradicting elements of Lost!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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Gimm-e
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An ambiguous concept[b] It[/b] is generally contrasted with vagueness, in that specific and distinct interpretations are permitted (although some may not be immediately apparent) GIANT spelling mistake, even I know that...
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BigDave
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As far as the Ambiguity debate vs Vagueness. is it really that important? Its only a word..... Lindeloff said himself the reasons for it was that it leaves for different interpretations of the said clues where no two conclusions may be the same and where no two conclusions can be wrong or right. End of the day the aim was to open up the subject to mass discussion, i think this is what Lindeloff was proud about the movie, and that if it was Spoon Fed then we would not have any discussions on here about he movie as much. it would mainly then be purely for the most part discussions about how good or poor the movie was, as opposed to discussing the clues we got that never gave us clear answers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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Gimm-e
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Don't even bother bigD, with your assumption 'the more I write down, the more I'm right'. I'm NOT reading all that.
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djamelameziane
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Oh dear hes had a mental break down - come back when your making more sense. Your getting angry because I agree with you LOL?! And what your typing is not making sense in parts could I say that you are vague - no I cant you are vague only in parts like the film lol :D ! And yes you do see it as vague but someone else sees it as not im afraid this is reality you just don't understand the sentence! It was explaining the different view points not what might actually be!!

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

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Gimm-e
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@ djawhatever...please reread all of it and YOU come back when you get it into your THICK skull.
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djamelameziane
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And yer dave this is like the 'plot hole' vs 'mistake' etc. arguement all over again - I ended up not using the word and just talking about the specifics which is the important thing :P ...

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

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djamelameziane
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LOL hes still attacking me for agreeing with him - language barriers are so funny sometimes ...so hes telling me to get the thing that I already think is right through my skull :O how do I do that? Hahahhaha

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

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BigDave
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"It’s funny when people resort to meaningless arguments when they’re stuck. Either you’re a hardcore fanboy or just blind to the truth." I dont think thats the case here at all, its as i have said everyone has their own opinion on the movie, you are very disappointed and thats your view and someone may have been vastly impressed by the movie. Thats not to say that one is correct and the other is not or that ones point is valid while the other is not. Its not a case of Black and White, and thats especially true of this movie. You dont have to read all my post, thats your choice and i was not assuming, your maybe assuming i am assuming lol.... My point is really is there any need to get so frustrated over if the movie fits the bill for Ambiguity and Vagueness... When at the end of the day both are just about interpretation. Some parts of the movie would fit the Ambiguous portion while some a Vague, while some others well... they just get you well and truly lost, but thats Lindeloff for you. Thing is though would everyone had wanted a spoon fed encounter? There are many spoon fed clues that as Lindeloff said give us answers, but these are vague so again not really spoon fed and the point he makes i think its not what we see but what we hear. We dont see any definitive proof this place was a Bio Weapons Plant, we do not see any definitive proof of a outbreak. The movie implies strongly that these are the case. But its the comments made by the cast, like Janeks "Weapons Facility and they Split something" and Shaws "there must have been some kind of outbreak and infection" These characters are ASSUMING. But its there assumptions that i assume Lindeloff means is giving us the answers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BigDave
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The big question is..... Is it worth anyone getting upset over a debate, everyone has difference of opinion and its what makes us all unique and Human Beings.... Thank God, Spartacus ant a member anymore as well i am sure that would be a interesting debate..... Its never a case of one person has to be completely correct, some of us could be completely wrong with our views on the OP Topic, that does not mean we cant have our own opinion just as the OP can also. I think it all depends on how people express that opinion mind... ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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djamelameziane
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Anyway yer not worth arguing...we agree there's allot of vague things Prometheus that people say are ambiguous but not on ambiguous meaning more than 2 meanings - just because something means more than 2 things does not mean it becomes vague - that part is very funny - vague has 0 definite meanings ambiguous has 2 or more definite meanings simple as that. Siiigh...

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

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BigDave
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"Wasn't Shaw crying because she was in pain and afraid?" Well this is like so much of the stuff open to many interpretations and again the cut of the movie is what confuses the issues with many scenes. My interpretation and i think thats the key word here not ambiguity or vagueness but the interpretation of the movies clues or not so clues... Anyway i think Shaw is upset because she had hoped to have gone on this mission through all the clues her and Holloway had got, to then persuade Weyland to fund the mission to find this place. She was hopping for answers and what she ended up with was a tragic roller coaster of events that have left what she had hopped to find being wrong and also revealed a lot of dark secrets about the potential truth of our creation and life. And going to this place has left her with her Boyfriend dead and they not getting what they was looking for... End of the day my interpretation on why she was crying is a combination of things, but mainly the "WE WAS WRONG SO WRONG" Shaw is upset because she was wrong, and her work to find this place has led to a lot of pain and misery.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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Gimm-e
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I believe I made my point very clear. ok, let's debate/ have a flame war right now. Go ahead.
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Gimm-e
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Not worth arguing hmmm... @Dja...did you read anything from the wiki-link I posted? Ambiguity MEANS (in general perception, aka by rational people, the majority, +- 6 billion people) that there are 2 distinct ways to interpret sth. What are you getting at?
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Gimm-e
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Mental breakdown...nope...just can't stand the fact that the world is full of idiots like you.
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Gimm-e
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Comment logged and removed by Snorkelbottom AKA Gavin Singleton!

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BigDave
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I think with regards to discussing the movie maybe Vagueness or Ambiguity is not the right word for the situation, as ambiguity itself can be Vague and Ambiguous.. I think a more relevant term is..... Uncertainty. [b]Uncertainty[/b]: The lack of certainty. A state of having limited knowledge where it is impossible to exactly describe the existing state, a future outcome, or more than one possible outcome. I think that fits more with some of the stuff we are trying to debate with Prometheus.... And some other points and parts are maybe not even the above or ambiguity at all, and simply a case of poor script writing and then filming of the said script. Not all of the OP points about things that dont add up or that lack reasons for, can be covered by being ambiguous or vague, some are purely confusing and contradicting but then if we wants answers we better ask Lindeloff himself, and even when he explains stuff he stays ambiguous and contradicting.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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djamelameziane
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Seriuosly calm it - I didnt think u were getting so serious about it... we agree on most of all this it dont matter we'll have to dissagree on that one I guess.

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

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Gimm-e
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Even I'm baffled by my reaction... man, this turd of a movie.
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Gimm-e
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What a WASTE of time... It's outrageous...You go ahead and debate as much as you want, even though it's pointless at this time being.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
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