Forum Topic
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-12-2013 9:37 PMI watched Prometheus again since I had nothing better to do and wrote some things down. First have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiguity
Now, from what I can make of this, ambiguity means that a concept/statement/ object…that is ambiguous, can be interpreted in TWO different ways. Not 3 or 15. Then it becomes vague.
The eggs in ALIEN are a perfect example of ambiguity: are they a bio-weapon or not? Simple as that. It’s one or the other. We don’t get an answer to this question in the entire Quadrilogy. And remember that the Queen also came from an egg and that Hudson’s statement: ‘How can they cut the power, they’re animals, man’ doesn’t count either because he’s just a ‘grunt’. No offense Hudson.
The only thing that comes to mind that’s ambiguous is the freaking cover: Is the head a representation of the engineers’ power or ours? Here are some things in Prometheus that are not ambiguous, but vague/ unclear:
*The green egg/crystal/ bio-weapon/ ornament.
*The alien-mural: multiple explanations.
*The black goo: I’m not even going to start with this one…
*Why did Weyland hide on the ship the entire time?
*Shaw crying in front of the mirror: I got this from the ‘everything wrong with Prometheus’-clip that’s on Youtube: ‘ Is she crying about her dead dreams, her dead lover or her dead faith?’
*The engineer ripping David’s head off: Was it because they asked him to tell them the secret for eternal life? Was he angry that they woke him up/ didn’t get his coffee? Or that they made an android and that he felt threatened by our inventiveness. Did David offend him? Did he think David was a Nazi? Lol
Other flaws:
http://www.moviemistakes.com/film9292
Some others I noticed:
*Shaw looks through a crevice in the rock and by the time Charlie gets there, it’s already a massive hole sealed with plastic. She even has already dated the drawing to be 35.000 years old. O.o
*In 2089 some people don’t even know what a Christmas tree is anymore…
*Scientists can’t tell if a structure is natural or not…
*’JESUS. THE SUNLIGHT IS HEATING THE WATER…’ WELL DUH!!
*’Ellie, I’m not wearing this thing anymore (helmet)’ Was it really that uncomfortable to wear? Well, then die if you really want to take the risk.
*’Just another tomb?’ What the hell, dude?
*Holloway doesn’t care at ALL about David’s safety, yet he’s the one who yells at him that they’re leaving.
*no contamination protocols whatsoever…
*How come there’s cell growth on the engineer’s head?
* DNA match? As in: ‘when you look for the culprit of a crime’- DNA-match?
*Holloway getting drunk, ah sr*w it!
Conclusion: Man, this is may be my third of fourth viewing but this is amateur hour…at best! Never have I come across so many stupid faults in a movie of this caliber that has such a famous name in cinema-land attached to it. Not even the amazing visuals can save it. Prometheus is vague as **** and definitely not as ‘ambiguous’ as some people believe it to be. This movie has only one leg it can stand on and it barely even succeeds in doing that. It NEEDS a sequel to give answers to the billions of questions raised here. It cannot stand on its own because the story can be interpreted in a million ways. I still can’t wrap my mind around the fact how unbelievably unsophisticated it all turned out to be. It raises SO many questions, they’re now having trouble to write a sequel, of which I’m not surprised at all. I honestly don’t get that nobody mentioned these flaws in basic movie-making 101 to Ridley. I tried to list it all but it’s just too much and I gave up when I wasn’t even halfway.
And we are being spoon fed:
Janek says it’s a weapons-facility. BAM!
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
49 Replies
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 10:39 AMAnyway yer not worth arguing...we agree there's allot of vague things Prometheus that people say are ambiguous but not on ambiguous meaning more than 2 meanings - just because something means more than 2 things does not mean it becomes vague - that part is very funny - vague has 0 definite meanings ambiguous has 2 or more definite meanings simple as that. Siiigh...
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
BigDave
MemberDeaconNov-13-2013 10:41 AM"Wasn't Shaw crying because she was in pain and afraid?"
Well this is like so much of the stuff open to many interpretations and again the cut of the movie is what confuses the issues with many scenes.
My interpretation and i think thats the key word here not ambiguity or vagueness but the interpretation of the movies clues or not so clues...
Anyway i think Shaw is upset because she had hoped to have gone on this mission through all the clues her and Holloway had got, to then persuade Weyland to fund the mission to find this place.
She was hopping for answers and what she ended up with was a tragic roller coaster of events that have left what she had hopped to find being wrong and also revealed a lot of dark secrets about the potential truth of our creation and life.
And going to this place has left her with her Boyfriend dead and they not getting what they was looking for...
End of the day my interpretation on why she was crying is a combination of things, but mainly the "WE WAS WRONG SO WRONG"
Shaw is upset because she was wrong, and her work to find this place has led to a lot of pain and misery.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 10:45 AMI believe I made my point very clear. ok, let's debate/ have a flame war right now. Go ahead.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 10:49 AMNot worth arguing hmmm...
@Dja...did you read anything from the wiki-link I posted?
Ambiguity MEANS (in general perception, aka by rational people, the majority, +- 6 billion people) that there are 2 distinct ways to interpret sth. What are you getting at?
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 10:53 AMMental breakdown...nope...just can't stand the fact that the world is full of idiots like you.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 10:54 AMComment logged and removed by Snorkelbottom AKA Gavin Singleton!
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
BigDave
MemberDeaconNov-13-2013 10:55 AMI think with regards to discussing the movie maybe Vagueness or Ambiguity is not the right word for the situation, as ambiguity itself can be Vague and Ambiguous..
I think a more relevant term is..... Uncertainty.
[b]Uncertainty[/b]: The lack of certainty. A state of having limited knowledge where it is impossible to exactly describe the existing state, a future outcome, or more than one possible outcome.
I think that fits more with some of the stuff we are trying to debate with Prometheus....
And some other points and parts are maybe not even the above or ambiguity at all, and simply a case of poor script writing and then filming of the said script.
Not all of the OP points about things that dont add up or that lack reasons for, can be covered by being ambiguous or vague, some are purely confusing and contradicting but then if we wants answers we better ask Lindeloff himself, and even when he explains stuff he stays ambiguous and contradicting.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 11:14 AMSeriuosly calm it - I didnt think u were getting so serious about it... we agree on most of all this it dont matter we'll have to dissagree on that one I guess.
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 11:21 AMEven I'm baffled by my reaction... man, this turd of a movie.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 11:23 AMWhat a WASTE of time... It's outrageous...You go ahead and debate as much as you want, even though it's pointless at this time being.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
BigDave
MemberDeaconNov-13-2013 11:26 AMWell my interpretation as far as the movie goes and i think thus the OP debate is this....
The things we are shown in the movie many are VAGUE... so as that we can not be certain on how to interpret them and that therefore the clues do not have one clear way of interpreting them thus AMBIGUOUS in there nature.
My interpretation of ambiguity is when something we are shown has more than one possible meaning and where there is no clear meaning... thus more than one....
I could be wrong and maybe have to resort to the Oxford English dictionary but that would most likely just support that ambiguity is just uncertainty , unless used to describe a ambiguous word or sentence in which case ambiguous is more than one meaning....
For example.... Saw is a ambiguous word..
I saw a Cat means that you seen one with your eyes and not the other meaning for Saw as in you cut the Cat in half lol...
Pretty Much like There, Their and They're etc..
But as far as the movie and interpretation to what we see visually then thats where it can be either Vague or Ambiguous but the best word to use is Uncertain.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconNov-13-2013 11:29 AM@Gimm-e
Your right, some of this movie has been a right mess, and there is no real clear way that we can obtain a clear truth about what went on with the movie.
Some of it was left open to interpretation and thus Vague/Ambiguous some of it becomes as such due to the way scenes was cut out and edited.
And some stuff was well they way it was written that defies most logical sense and thus makes little sense.....
Guess we need give Lindeloff a nice big thank you lol
By that i mean like certain things to like how some characters reacted, be that Milburn and the Snake, Holloway and his Helmet are not really vagueness or ambiguous, in themselves they are pretty much silly things for them to have done given the circumstances... The reasons why they did so... well now thats open to debate lol
But things like the Mural was Vague and open to a lot of Ambiguity, then we have the Goo that not so much Vague but that it appears to have a lot of contradiction to itself.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 12:21 PMYer anyway I was just interpreting the "more than one" part literally as it does not say "not more than two" . I know the origins are that it was from bi meaning two but that was a long time ago and allot of words are evolving recently. And I know it is almost always two things simply maybe because we find more than two hard to use. Anyway just the way I see it.
Gimm-e yer I got very imotional near the begging of this film launch now im a bit more calm and I have given up arguing some points like many others. The universe is just to complex and full of different people . But its still fun to rib a few people now and again. And throw ya opinion out there sometimes :) .
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Batchpool
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 2:06 PMWhat I find hilarious is that the Wiki definition of ambiguity has proven itself (judging by the responses on this thread), not only to be ambiguous, but possibly vague as well. The opposite of vague being exact.
The Oxford English Dictionary, which is used by the examinations boards of the UK gives the following.
ambiguous (noun: ambiguity)
1. doubtful, questionable; indistinct, obscure, not clearly defined
2. admitting more than one interpretation, or explanation; of double meaning, or of several possible
meanings; equivocal (the commonest use.)
3. of doubtful position or classification, as partaking of two characters or being on the boundary line
between
4. of things: wavering or uncertain in direction or tendency; of doubtful or uncertain issue
5. hence, insecure in its indications; not to be relied upon
6. of persons, oracles, etc.: using words of doubtful or double meaning
Therefore, no mention of interpretations being limited to two.
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 2:19 PMHeh yer I was actually thinking that it isnt totally clear. And allot of words are like this - it would be good if they added weather it was 2 or more or just 2! Heh silly argument I know :p ...
It does however mention double which would be two but also several which usually means 3 or more I think. And of course the one or more bit :)
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Gimm-e
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 2:39 PMI am so sorry...
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 2:43 PMWell it is actually still not certain which one of us is correct funnily enough - never mind.
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Batchpool
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2013 2:58 PMThe whole argument over what is ambiguous or vague appears to come down to what interpretation may have been inferred.
When Halloway takes his helmet off, my interpretation is that it has been inferred that he is claustrophobic. At the start of the movie he is outside. When he discusses David using his helmet. Does’nt it make sense that a claustrophobic person would point this out and raise the question of why wear it if you do not need to. Finally, he takes the thing off because he needs to, and knowing that he can breath without it is an excuse to take it off.
Also claustrophobia is a fear, something which David would not completely understand. So the question would appear to be a misinterpreted insult.
FREEZE!
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphNov-13-2013 4:46 PMEnough, i'm locking this thread.
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