Forum Topic
richardbrucebaxter
MemberOvomorphJun-29-2013 7:13 PM[img]http://i.imgur.com/ABrKDws.png[/img]
Feel free to critique this presentation on the origins of the xenomorph. Note the original design was created by Meshuggah ([url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/23986][1][/url]), and key additions provided by Doomtrain (with deleted scene commentary text identified by MadEye).
Note the precise flow chart above along with the supporting evidence below was first synthesised in another forum ([url=http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/4631/can-bacterial-drums-of-shit-turn-into-eggs-or-did-hammerpedes-lay-the-eggs-some-thoughts-][2][/url], [url=http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/4755/direct-prometheus-alien-connection/p5][3][/url], [url=http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/4834/alien-origins][4][/url]). Worm theory has also been mentioned more recently by Meshuggah on another thread ([url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/25230][5][/url]).
List of supporting evidence for worm theory (will add to if necessary);
- worms lay eggs (/hermaphrodites)
- adverse environmental conditions (silica) - "Has a funny habit of shedding its cells and replacing them with polarized silicon, which gives him a prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions."
- hammerpede makes hiss
- hammerpede sheds its skin
- hammerpede has a tail
- hammerpede has acid for blood
- hammerpede head shape is identical to facehugger head shape
- hammerpede seeks to enter the target
- Deacon has placenta/umbilical cord (it does not lay eggs)
- Deacon has human teeth
- Mural indicates true intent of Engineers with urns: a Deacon Project (the xenomorph is an artefact / biohazard)
- Lindelof quote 1 (on the Deacon): "Is it an egg layer?"
- Lindelof quote 2: "...here we see these little worms, which we understand is going to be the beginning, and I think the idea is that we are starting very, very, small."
- Lindelof quote 3: "I felt that the punchline of Prometheus was going to be that there is human DNA in what we come to know as the human Xenomorph. If what we see at the end of the film is a queen or a progenitor of the eggs in Alien is all up for interpretation. We feel that there are clues in the movie that lead one down a path." (implies the existence of a non-human Xenomorph)
- growth of worm (to hammerpede) = growth of sperm/parasite (x100)
- deleted scene 'Our First Alien' notes say "Biologist Millburn makes an exciting discovery in the Engineer pyramid which could very well represent the first stage in the evolution of a far more dangerous organism"
- deleted scene 'Skin' notes say "Millburn and Fifield make an odd find (which may strike a chord with Alien fans) in the pyramid. Could it be a clue as to what killed off the Engineers?"
- supporting research regarding the capability of worms identified by Meshuggah (and Doomtrain); http://www.cracked.com/article_19988_the-5-most-nightmarish-worms-planet_p2.html, http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/bizarre_bone_worms_emit_acid_to_feast_on_whale_skeletons
Some minor points I have noted so far with respect to the worm theory;
- both the Deacon and the worm do not have eyes - so this property of worms cannot be used to justify the theory
- there exists a minor discrepancy - the obfuscated trilobites in the mural have tails. I am guessing they were not shown for a reason: they don't match the film regardless
Note there are a few extensions of worm theory floating around, but these appear more speculative (e.g. the xenomorph being the product of the Deacon and hammerpede, rather than the mating of hammerpedes; the urns containing a parasite themselves rather than being designed to mutate sperm; the biomech features of the xenomorph and the life support systems of the face hugger coming from exposure to Engineer tech / pressure suit; etc). There is also ongoing discussion with respect to the creation of the goo (designed to make Deacons) and its connection with both the dome mural and the sacrificial scene at the beginning of the film.
::: Worm theory walkthrough :::
The progenitor of the xenomorph ("big things have small beginnings");
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MyIHFuW.jpg[/img]
The murals communicate the Deacon Project being worked on by the Engineers on LV223 (before it all fell apart);
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1CUK6ya-q-0/T9T4Em-PweI/AAAAAAAAFRU/MmdvcIsQvOo/s1600/Alien+Mural.jpg[/img]
Shows the beginnings of what happened to the engineers ("What killed them?");
[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121121114055/avp/images/0/02/Tumblr_mbqtsvwNWD1rhq7xgo1_500.png[/img]
And for reference, the next generation hammerpede;
[img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9426/efkt.jpg[/img]
"Well, as I said, I'm still... collating, actually, but uh, I have confirmed that he's got an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. Has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon, which gives him a prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions. Is that enough?";
[img]http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/media/Sand%20Storm.jpg[/img]
The Deacon life cycle being based on rage and impregnation (explication of which would never pass for anything but an R-rating) - they exploit the host's reproductive system rather than laying unprotected eggs (which is a worm artefact);
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mat2rk8vfO1rhq7xgo1_500.png[/img]
Confirmation of the intended use of the ampules to create Deacons - the xenomorph is an artefact;
[img]http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/media/deacon_alien_prometheus_born.jpg[/img]
It is possible the acid secreting worm was attracted to the local environment of the terraforming facilities (in particular, the atmospherically contained ampule rooms), and surfaced full dune style and all.
15 Replies
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphJun-30-2013 8:30 AMGood writing. Can you get a Deacon or a Morb without a Human?? The Murel suggests so unless Humans have been with the Engineers.
Also if Shaw wouldn't have got the Trilobite out, what it have been the same when it ultimately got out?
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malex234
MemberOvomorphJun-30-2013 5:25 PM@Richardbrucebaxter - excellent theory. I especially like the idea that there are separate "evolutionary" paths for the xeno family tree. The idea that the Engineers' plan was to create the Deacon (Project Deacon - very cool concept), but "accidentily" they also ended up with the xeno seen in Alien and its sequels. This line of thought works if we use the term "accident" in its broadest possible sense to include everything from an "oops" to sabotage. This theory may well put us on the path to solving the mystery of what happened on LV223 and LV 426, but there are some unanswered questions that could undermine the validity of the theory.
First, let's assume that the Engineers' plan is to simultaneously destroy mankind and replace us with a new species. Support for this line of thought comes from David's statement to the effect that to create sometimes you have to destroy. Apparently the Deacon or whatever its progeny will become is the intended outcome. We have seen that sex between an infected man and a woman will produce the trilobite, which has a similar function to the facehugger seen in Alien and the sequels. If the Engineers' DNA and human DNA are truly the same, then a trilobite infecting a human or an Engineer should theoretically produce a Deacon. Thus, dumping the black goo bioweapon on Earth should ultimately produce a whole planet of Deacons or some variation on that theme. What that would really mean, we lack enough information on the Deacon to do more than make wild guesses. However, based upon the mural and what we were told in Prometheus, this appears to have been the Engineers' Actual Plan. However, some "accident" intervened, and The Plan went to hell.
Second, let's assume that the "accident" involved either the intentional or unintentional release of the black goo, with the result that some or all of the Engineers on LV223 were exposed to the substance, and that some lower lifeforms such as worms, centipedes or some other insect type creatures were likewise exposed. I am uncertain whether the exposure to the black goo would cause the Engineers to simply break down and explode like the sacrificial engineer and the decapitated Engineer, or whether they would have transformed into zombie monsters like Fifield. Either way, LV223 would not have been a good place to be 2000 years ago.
Third, the worms or other lower lifeforms exposed would have mutated based upon what we saw from the worms morphing into the Hammerpedes in Prometheus. The main problem in creating a full blown theory from this is we really don't know what the Hammerpede did to Milburn's body (aside from killing him) when it entered him. Did the Hammerpede implant an embryo which will burst out presumably in one of the sequels, or did it simply absorb some of Milburn's vitals, including possibly his DNA? Does this Hammerpede then morph into a facehugger type creature? We just don't know. But going back to the original outbreak 2000 years ago, let's assume that some of these mutated bugs become facehuggers, and perhaps one or more stowed away on one of the Juggernauts bound for Earth or elsewhere. Let's assume that it attacked the pilot (our beloved Space Jockey) and impregnated him and causing him to make an emergency landing on LV426. The resulting chestburster is the progenitor of the xeno we saw in Alien and could explain why the original creature looks so different from the Deacon.
@DenzelTH - I believe the Trilobite was just about to be "born" anyway when Shaw did the emergency C-Section based upon the way her abdomen was bulging. So, I think the Trilobite we saw was pretty much the final product. I'm not sure Shaw survives if the Trilobite busts through her. On your other question, I'm not sure if you can get a Deacon without a human female (we haven't seen any female Engineers yet) involved in the process. David referred to the trilobite as a fetus (Egg and Sperm required??????). As I stated above, it shouldn't matter whether a human or an Engineer gets facehugged by the Trilobite, if the information we were given in Prometheus is accurate about Human and Engineer DNA.
brego
MemberOvomorphJun-30-2013 6:39 PMVery interesting reading.
Perhaps the result of the black goo is controllable in some way via the engineer. Perhaps there are many kinds of black goo and we only saw the effect of 1 or maybe 2, dont forget that the Engineer's goo at the start of the film was in a different vessel and may of course have had a very different effect on Engineers biology compared to human. We really dont have enough clear info to form an absolute case on what is going one with The Engineers. I think Ridley is a genius and will keep us debating and guessing right up to and beyond the next film.
In my mind The Engineers are simply clones, sort of delivery systems for an even higher type of being. When humans get involved things go haywire. This is exactly what happened in Prometheus.
Perhaps the Xenomorphs we are all so familiar with are simply an unfortunate abomination, as is the Deacon, an unexpected outcome caused by accident. The mural however would lead us to believe that Deacon like creature are a possible outcome when rules are broken. Perhaps this mural is some kind of warning, or reminder to the Engineers as to what can happen should rules not be followed.
Cant wait for the next installment.
Cremildo
MemberOvomorphJun-30-2013 8:03 PMi agree with the topic starter: the Deacon is the Engineers' masterpiece. Thus the Mural.
They are creators/manipulators of life. I highly doubt the end product (Deacon/xeno) of the process is an "accident".
What is left to be seen is the purest form of the process/cycle, one in which the Deacon is born without without humans intervening.
Are "Aliens" (egg-laying Queen) and "Alien³" (xeno born from egg and then an animal) being considered, canon-wise, by the makers of Prometheus? Lindelof mentions the Queen in the excerpt above but it doesn't reflect anything in his script.
How did the Space Jokey from Alien get impregnated (supposing no Trilobyte born from humans was involved?).
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Ruhaniya
Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphJun-30-2013 8:13 PMI can't quite remember if it was Alien or Aliens but was there was a mention of LV-426's composition for life on the surface to be that of just primitive worms? Maybe it was in the novels but it has always stuck in my thoughts. If it is true? How did the worms get there? Perhaps their intention is to create giant biomechanical worms that process the earthly matter to make huge habitats under ground?
Anunnaki50
MemberOvomorphJul-01-2013 3:51 AMGoing back to what made the Hammerpedes. I think the biological material they came up with in the first place (black goo) is from somewhere deep deep in space. In my mind I think they were looking for some key element for their weapon. The SJ's ended up finding it somewhere in an entirely different galaxy. Next thing they did was bring it back but unknowly realizing that this could be some early primordial ooze. That has really powerful genetic value that could be harnessed to create something absolutely awesome or horrendous. Like the beginning of Prometheus they first used it for terra-forming planets. It was not until later that they may have split into two different factions. There was one particular faction that decided to once and for all destroy their brethren. Its possible in my mind that the reason why they went after earth is because of one bad faction of engineers were out to wipe out or transform their enemies worlds into their own and restart. I kind of like the idea of the younger Engineers splitting off from the Elders only to have it their own way. Maybe the looked at the Elders as old and shouldn't wield power anymore.
The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno
granolaboy
MemberOvomorphJul-01-2013 2:29 PMThe worm theory is the best so far ! The only problem that still bother me is the holloway "infection". Was he just falling apart and decomposed or was he already mutating ( breathing toxic athmosphere ) ?
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Cremildo
MemberOvomorphJul-01-2013 7:33 PM[quote]The only problem that still bother me is the holloway "infection". Was he just falling apart and decomposed or was he already mutating ( breathing toxic athmosphere ) ?[/quote]
In order to answer that, we ought to find out if there is any difference between [i]ingesting[/i] the black goo and [i]having external contact[/i] with it...
Both the Sacrificial Engineer and Holloway drank the stuff; Fifield, however, fell face first into it...
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shambs
MemberOvomorphJul-02-2013 7:17 PMThe sacrifice engineer had no worms in his body, the first black goo is different from the last. Furthermore, there is no evidence that Holloway was disintegrating, because unfortunately was burned by Vickers. :p
shambs
MemberOvomorphJul-02-2013 7:26 PM[quote]In order to answer that, we ought to find out if there is any difference between ingesting the black goo and having external contact with it...[/quote]
Could be, plus the amounts of the substance varies as the movie progresses.
BigDave
MemberDeaconJul-03-2013 10:04 AMThe Worm theory is interesting......
However as far as the Traditional Xeno goes, i would say that it existed a long time before the events of Prometheus...
However..... Ridley etc has given varied and contradicting comments on the Xeno....
His lasted implying maybe that the Xenos and Eggs was Evolved from what ever the Derelict was carrying, but with his words he was also talking about LV 223 incident and Juggernauts and the way he worded his comment, it could be in reflection to the Evolution of Organisms on LV 223 and not the Derelict.
The Mural seems to imply that the Face Hugger or a Organism very similar had been known to the Engineers a long long time ago and prior to 2000 years ago outbreak.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconJul-03-2013 10:13 AMAs far as the goo goes.....
Well Spaights Draft made it simple only it was not Goo but Bugs that digested its victim and stored its genetic code to pass on to other victims.
The movie to me implies a similar process only instead of bugs, its the Mutagen that does this....
But Fox went someway to explain the Goo in the Prometheus Files.
its explanation.... well dont add up...
It implies that the Substance when consumed, breaks down DNA and the more consumed the faster the process..
Thus trying to imply Holloway was suffering just like the Sacrificial Engineer only at a slower rate...
It also implies that when the Substance is breathed in, then instead of breaking down DNA... it just mutates the DNA......
This is what happened to the Worms and Fifield....
Well nope they had got the substance in contact with their skin and externally...
You see if inhaled it mutates DNA, then why did no other crew members become infected when they had their helmets off?
And if Holloway is suffering the same as the Engineer at the start of the movie, then his body would just break down into molecules and as film leads us to believe the broken down substance would then have had the ability to fuse with basic life and pass on Holloways Human DNA onto it...
So what if thats not so, is the explanation for...
1) Through Holloways infection to intercourse with Shaw we get the Trilobite that has a lot of Xeno DNA?
2) Why did life on Earth have a connection with the Engineer, and not DNA and traits of the Xeno?
The Answer is basically in how Spaights had visioned the contents of the Sacrificial Bowl.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
brego
MemberOvomorphJul-11-2013 9:27 PMIn reply to Cremildo and that the Deacon was created without Human intervention... Your argument is rather flawed as indeed there was human intervention.. There was a gestation period within a human, who was impregnated by another human who was infected by an android who was created by a Human. If the Deacon was the Engineers masterpiece as you suggest they seem to make things difficult for themselves... I believe the mural looked as much like our beloved xenomorphs as it did like the Deacon, so perhaps this shape, colour and likeness is a byproduct of the black goo once its done its job...
Cremildo
MemberOvomorphJul-12-2013 11:15 AM
[quote="brego"]In reply to Cremildo and that the Deacon was created without Human intervention... Your argument is rather flawed as indeed there was human intervention.[/quote]
Actually, I wasn't trying to make an argument. What I wrote is this: "What is left to be seen is the purest form of the process/cycle, one in which the Deacon is born without without humans intervening."
I am aware humans [i]did[/i] meddle with the lifecycle.
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brego
MemberOvomorphJul-14-2013 11:53 PMGranted Cremildo. I just think that there must be more to it than a group of advanced Alien humanoids who have the power to create life by sacrificing themselves on a baron planet, whos greatest pure work is a strange creature who needs to gestate within another....
I still believe that there is a higher purpose. Perhaps an intergalactic grand plan, which somehow involves the goo, the Engineers and possibly a superior race who run it all.
Im suspecting that the Engineers are bred for one purpose only, and that that purpose is to gestate new life. Theres so much we dont know that this story could go anywhere.
Exactly as Ridley want it......
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