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Not_my_intention
MemberOvomorphMay-30-2013 5:27 PMRecently i have been thinking about the alien creature more then i usually do, and i had two ideas that i think are pretty interesting and should be thought about more. the first one is more about the symbolism of the alien, what it represents and how it can be anything, the second is about how the alien is still potentially clouded with mystery, and just needs a new take to be fresh.
so the first one mainly involves the controversial topic of turning the alien into a simple bug in the second movie, and while yes we have talked about this many times i don't think anyone has put this perspective on it, the alien is simply a symbol of fear, and that fear can take any shape necessary depending on the movie you are making, there is no t[*] rue one and only ideology of the alien. for instance in the first movie the alien represents an "alien" something we cant understand, that's horrifying. it really only represents fear itself, then in the second movie the genera changes to military action, and the idea of not understanding is still scary, but not as scary in this situation.
so they made the aliens more militaristic, and clearly organized, something that is much more of a threat to a military force. they also make the clear comparison to the ant to show how they are not only organized, but they have a perfectly structured society and reproductive system, truly making them the perfect threat. now in the third movie the alien returns to the pure symbol of evil, but also represents something like a demon, to punish people for there sins. alien 3 also shows how the alien is like an unstoppable force, that after all the effort in aliens it still comes back.
that's just an idea for people to think about, because i know a lot of people don't like the insect aliens in aliens, but you need to realize they didn't ruin the alien, they made it better by showing the alien can be anything, and can be molded to fit any kind horror. so my second idea is that the alien could potentially have many new twists in its life cycle. we have already seen it have a single life cycle with a lone alien, we see how it adapted a queen in the presence of many hosts., and we have seen it take genetic traits from what it comes from, so whose to say we couldn't see it adapt specifically to a type of environment, for instance we always see the alien start off very pale and yellow in color, yet turn black and brown.
for all we know those aren't even the aliens natural colors, may not have any, its skin may just adapt to its environment, along with the configuration of there nests. maybe a dumb idea, but a fresh one. there is still so little known about the alien, and people should start to take it into a more obscure direction, it shouldn't have one iconic form. maybe after years of development, there hostile militaristic "bug like" society forms into a more complicated more human like community in the lack of hosts or threats. speaking of the lack of hosts perhaps the alien could change its life cycle from asexual to sexual,getting rid of the queen and facehugger which could maybe only be used when first colonizing a planet for more efficient spreading.
maybe they use the bodies of dead aliens to bio mechanize new ones instead of using hosts. there are so many new ideas and i am sad that after 3 no new ideas were presented. now i wasn't around when alien 3 came out, but if i was and saw it i feel that the genetic traits thing would have blown me away, what a great idea, but i grew up with that idea so to me its just alien law. so i want the alien series to go back to exploring the species and taking it into a new direction.
this is probably what they were going for with the black goo in Prometheus, but that wasn't directly related to the alien (as far as we know) and we can only speculate how the gap fills, and i am looking for something that builds from the aliens, rather then a so far separate idea all together. i know that in one of the unused scripts for alien 3 the aliens were able to reproduce or fuse with machines, this idea would most likely have not worked in a movie, but its still a pretty cool idea and it could be done.
so that's all, i just wanted to throw some ideas around, especially to the people who don't like the bug idea that it was a necessary symbolic choice for the movie, and to everyone that the alien shouldn't be bound to what we have seen already, and i think needs a new idea, so i hope to see people agree with me and maybe see some cool ideas. also those examples i made of possible ways to expand on the alien physiology came right off the top of my head while writing this so if they sound kind of dumb thats why lol
14 Replies
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-30-2013 5:56 PMI dont see the problem with the Bug Idea....
Dont forget that Bugs are maybe the most perfect life form on Earth as far as a single purpose to procreate and infest and take over.
Even in Alien we can assume that the life forms purpose is to infect hosts in order to procreate more of its species.
If we do look at Ants they have the ability to create from a Egg and Larva any kind of Ant, be that female workers, male soldiers, flying male ants and off course a Queen and the Queen can reproduce Asexually and produces this way clones.
Is this not what the Xeno does? Would this not fit in with what the Organism Bio Weapon is used by the Engineers in Prometheus, if we consider the Eggs that got onto the Derelict so long ago.
The deleted Alien scene is a good one, as some Bug Haters use it to rubbish the idea of a Queen.... But again lets look at what the outcome would been....
Xeno kills Ripley as she finds the nest.....
Bret Egg releases a new Face Hugger, maybe larger than normal one and different as the Moprhed Host/Egg is Larger and different to those on the Derelict. Anyway this released Face Hugger or what ever comes from the Morphed Egg, then implants a Embryo into Cocooned Host Dallas...
What makes more sense for the perfect Organism and its natural instinct to procreate....
Another Xeno and thus Two Xenos lose on a ship that will then when it encounters another ship or rescuers, and runs around capturing them to change half into eggs and half into Hosts for Eggs Face Hugger etc?
Or that the Morph Egg creates a Larger Organism that once becomes Chest Buster it creates a different Xeno that is larger and can then Procreate on its own via laying Eggs i.e a Queen.
Some also hated Alien for how difficult the Alien was to kill, compared to Aliens...
Well lets look at the Predator, it was a hand full for Lieutenant Mike Harrigan in Predator 2 and the victims it killed... and it was a handful for the Marines in Predator due to the Jungle and its Cloak.
Take a Predator in a larger space in which it cant hide as easy, with not so many areas to hide and ambush from and then once its cloak runs out and its left in open in a sealed room the size of a massive Football Stadium and hunted by 20 well armed Marines and how long would the Predator last?
No doubt had Ripley and Crew had weapons, and the ship was not as dark and confined place and the crew had Military Training, then well left in the open the Xeno would stand little chance.
Likewise if a lone Xeno from Aliens had appeared in Prometheus and was in the cave/temple complex with the Prometheus Crew who had little in way of Arms then surely it could have picked the Crew off one by one just as in Alien.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-30-2013 6:13 PMLooking into Alien 3 and from then on, we do see that the Embryo of the Xeno takes on traits from its Host....
This makes perfect sense to allow the Embryo to then Evolve into a Hybrid Organism that is part Xeno DNA and the Hosts DNA so that the Organism is then suited to what ever environment the Hosts come from.
so lets say a Xeno Face Hugger implants a Killer Whale, this would produce a Xeno Hybrid Whale that then is suitable for the habitat of swimming and living in Water.
Again all part of the Organism Ability to survive and adapt to what ever situation it is required.
Prometheus gave us plenty of clues as to a connection wit the Xeno DNA, yes some things never added up to how the plot was told.... But still it seems clear to see that some part of the substance in the Urns the crew came into contact with carried and passed on Xeno DNA and Traits onto what ever it came into contact with.
Be that Worms that became Xenoesque Eel Organisms, to Fifield that had a Xenoesque look (especially concept work, unused animatronics and the alternative Fifield Hanger Scene). All the way to Holloways infection that some how impregnates Shaw after Sex with a Baby Squid that resembles the Face Hugger and performs the same purpose that lead to a Deacon Chest Buster.
If all the Goo is the same then how come the Sacrificial Engineer never broke down to create lifeforms that carried Xeno DNA?
Nope i have covered this inconsistency in topics before.
Ultimately it shows the Goo is used to break down a DNA that becomes a substance that then fuses with and passes that DNA onto other Organisms, and Jon Spaihts Script made this simple to understand with same process only it had tiny bugs that did the capture DNA.
The Xeno part is that what ever else was mixed with the Goo from the start of the movie, carried Xeno DNA over to what ever it comes into contact with and from this we can see that the Xeno DNA traits are highly advanced and adaptive and also very fast to evolve.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphMay-30-2013 6:26 PMBang on BigDave
What you was saying about any egg can birth any kind of ant, is that how the Queen got on LV426? Could it have been the Engineers chestburster??
This has probably been discussed but i havent seen anything.
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphMay-30-2013 6:33 PMYea the goo on that David gave to Holloway didnt mix with the outer goo (Davids delicate procedure),so it just broke him down,this also what the Engineer used at the start. Fifield and the worms had both goo's mixed,so it broke and created hybrid..
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphMay-30-2013 6:46 PMThe Xeno needs a new direction you're right because even know it takes it hosts adjustment to environments, they all still have that same look, even know the deacon isn't much different, i like a new take on the xeno.
Ridley Scott talks about life in spac(Directors Commentery) , saying there could be creatures up there that are 20 feet wide and 1 inch thick, all depends on the environment .
So i think we're in safe hands for a new take on the xeno,especially if it involves the Engineers home planet.
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
Svanya
AdminPraetorianMay-31-2013 1:47 PM[i]"so the first one mainly involves the controversial topic of turning the alien into a simple bug in the second movie"-invaderzim42[/i]
@invaderzim42; If I recall correctly, Ridley Scott and O’Bannon always referred to the Xeno as being an insect, specifically an Ant.
xeno_alpha_07
MemberFacehuggerMay-31-2013 1:53 PMSvanya is correct. The insect influence was there from the beginning. To read more I recommend you read the following article:
[url=http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/]Alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence[/url]
[quote] I wanted him [the Alien] to be insect-like. Like an ant. Because if you examine an ant under a microscope they’re kind of elegant, and I wanted him to be very elegant and dangerous.”
Ridley Scott, The Alien Saga, 2002 (archival interview from 1991)[/quote]
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-31-2013 3:17 PM@DenzelTH
This is one of the inconsistencies in the plot that Lindoff changed, and Fox released Weyland Files to back it up and yet while they may be pushing it as a fact, it still is inconsistent.
You see if Holloway had taken the same inner seed like the Sacrificial Engineer then we have to ask, why did Shaws Fetus have Xeno DNA and thus lead to the Deacon, and why do Humans who came from the Sacrificial Engineer not have Xeno traits.
As far as the Engineer/Space Jockey on LV426
Ridley has confirmed that he was chest busted after he got infected with one of the ships cargo of Eggs, and he says the Derelict was carrying a Cargo of Eggs and not Urns.
So its not a case of a Queen Chest Busted and laid them, Ridley also confirmed that the Eggs on the Derelict had been there for about 2000 years gove or take a few hundred.
Well he said that the Derelict Crash Landed on LV 426 within a few hundred years of the fall of outpost LV 223 due to the outbreak 2000 years prior.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
shambs
MemberOvomorphMay-31-2013 8:15 PMFor a while I thought that the two types of black good are actually the same. The engineer in the beginning has a perfect and pure genetic. By contrast, human genetics is imperfect to serve the purpose of creation (or at least constructive life) and then we have our dear xenomorphs.
But there is one big problem with that thinking: the engineers of the pyramid. They were victims of a epidemic outbreak, then definitely the black goo from the urns is different.
Furthermore I argue that Jon Spaihts explains very well how the black goo works, I think Ridley Scott should have kept part of that, because in that script the black goo extracted DNA to create something based on the original form.
shambs
MemberOvomorphMay-31-2013 8:37 PMThey are like insects. I prefer the Giger's vision, but Ridley made this film. Moreover, the facts are above the subjective opinions.
malex234
MemberOvomorphMay-31-2013 10:59 PMThis thread would seem to conclusively settle the question of whether the alien was intended to be a bug from the beginning. I know some folks are going to be unhappy that the alien is and always has been a bug. Perhaps those who blame James Cameron for turning their beloved Alien into an insect can take some comfort in the notion that the Alien is just a bug in the same way that Jaws was just a fish. Clearly, this is no ordinary insect - it is far larger than anything alive today. We would have to look to the fossil record to find anything approaching a 7ft tall insect. I also think the Alien's level of intelligence is an open question. Do they absorb some of the knowledge of their hosts? They seem to be able to manipulate at least some human machinery. I read somewhere that Ridley's original ending of Alien had the creature killing Ripley and sending that final message imitating Ripley's voice, which suggests a rather high level of intelligence.
The real question in my mind is whether this is a natural species which the Engineers tried to utilize for their own nefarious purposes or whether this is a creature they created or genetically modified themselves. If this is a natural species, then what kind of a hell hole planet did it arise on? Imagine the kinds of nasty defenses other creatures would have to have just to survive, and an even more frightening idea - what if there are creatures that could prey upon the alien? Perhaps we will someday get answers to these questions in the sequels.
DenzelTH
MemberOvomorphJun-01-2013 6:00 AMOh yeah BigDave you're right there. What if it maybe had something to do with David containing it?
I wish they would've contained Holloway to see what actually happened.
The Xeno DNA could already waiting inside humans to be fused... I dont know,abit confusing .
\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"
xeno_alpha_07
MemberFacehuggerJun-01-2013 6:17 AM[quote][i]I read somewhere that Ridley's original ending of Alien had the creature killing Ripley and sending that final message imitating Ripley's voice...[/i][/quote]
I believe Ridley proposed that idea while being very drunk. I'm so glad they never did that ending.
BigDave
MemberDeaconJun-01-2013 11:17 AMIndeed Spaihts draft explained it well, o ha discussed by theory on the Goo and what i read from the clues... Then a while latter when Spaihts draft got leaked i read it and it pretty much confirmed the way i saw the Goo working.
Spaihts draft had tiny nano scarabs that ate and digested the Engineer breaking down his DNA and these bugs then stored the Engineers DNA, then these Bugs then came into contact with a Primitive Primate and bite her and passed the Engineers DNA so it mixed with hers and produced a Hybrid, part Primitive Primate and Part Engineer which lead to the predecessor to the Human Race.
In Prometheus the substance the Engineer drank broke his DNA down and produced some other material that diluted with the water and then fused with basic single cell life forms and Evolved them into complex life.
Anyway sorry for going off topic...
Question is the Xeno a Bug.... maybe not, i think they are more a crustacean to a degree, well maybe not again.... i guess the closest i would say would be like Humanoid Arthropods?
Well they always appear to me to be like Humanoid Scorpions as far as their exo skeleton goes. Saying that the Alien one did look more Stomatopoda Shrip look to its exo skeleton.
But i do think the whole way the colony and reproductive system does have some similarities to Termites and Ants.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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