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The FINAL Canon Debate

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Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJuly 25, 2012
Many, many times other members and myself have put forward the possibility that the following film franchises all exist within the same fictional universe and are thus all canon to one another... [center][b]Predator - AVP - Prometheus - Alien[/b][/center] ...Yet many, many naysayers and detractors voice their opinions stating this is not the case. 9 times out of 10, such arguments are subjective, from individuals whom don't like the idea. Now, while some of those supporting the idea of these franchises existing within the same universe may also have subjective arguments, I do not. I have looked at this debate from an objective point of view and always reach the same conclusions... - There is more information in the movies to suggest they are all set within the same fictional universe - There is no contradictory information in the movies that states otherwise - There has not been any official statement stating otherwise To that end I challenge the naysayers to disprove, with verifiable sources for their information and statements, why these franchises are not part of the same universe.

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Gavin
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@ Engineer Tech Brett... As I said... Note the first line says "Weyland Corporation is recognized as a legal entity..." Not... "Weyland Industries is recognized as a legal entity..." ...Again, it clearly says Weyland Corporation, not Weyland Industries.

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Crabfart
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Isnt this argument based on nothing saying they cannot exist in the same universe and so we could add a million other films no?! How about howard the duck in the canon :P ...
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Svanya
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James Cameron and Ridley both say no. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnS7CGWNmU&feature=youtu.be]James Cameron Hates AVP[/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5TQLRMIGA2I&NR=1%22]Ridley Scott on AVP[/url] I like AVP, but not as anything more than a Hollywood mashup. I do not like AVP Requiem, that was a facepalm movie.

Wat

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Gavin
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Actually.... In the first link, Jim Cameron actually says... [center]"they've really screwed up the whole franchise"[/center] ...and in the second link Ridley says [center]"they know how i feel"[/center] ...neither of 'em say "no, they are not canon".

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genjitsu17
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While i love the original AVP (Machiko) comic.....the movies just blew. I thought the purpose of introducing Peter Weyland was to reset the Weyland in AVP. I dunno, just seems stupid to also have 2 simultaneous ancient alien stories going on. Having the Engineers and the Predators both visiting humans would have caused some trouble, i think. Just my opinion.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
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Cypher
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[img]http://flicksandbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/avp_skyswingball11.jpg[/img] Tell you what Snork, if the 3rd AvP (if there ever is one) shows me how the original Space Jockey ended up on LV-426 then I'll join your evil cause :P
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url] "Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
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Redleader
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Have you noticed they dont like any of the other alien and predator movies, only their own? Ridley had chance to backup his comments and it failed. Camerron would have failed too unless he created a similar war movie like aliens and avatar. I wonder what Paul Anderson say about Prometheus? Something like the comments above.
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genjitsu17
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AVP one was ok, just couldn't shake the ripoff feeling of the main character's developed friendship with the predator. Machiko anyone? Plus Paul S. Anderson is a hack director. It was one of his best films though.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
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Cypher
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Event Horizon is his only one worth watching I reckon. I wish he'd leave my beloved Resident Evil alone too :'(
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url] "Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
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joeyjoe
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As far as im concerned, alien franchise canon includes: alien, aliens, alien 3, and prometheus. Frankly, i ignore alien insurrection and both AVP's because they are all three complete garbage (id give all of them an F....literally). Subjective, i know, but im just being honest. The real reason i ignore those 3 movies is because i dislike everything about them and feel that they are antithetical to the cinematic spirit of their predecessors (franchise canon). If i were to try and force some objectivity into the scenario, i might say this: All of the films with david giler and walter hill as producers are canon. Hill and Giler were involved with alien, aliens, alien 3, and prometheus. Hill and giler refused to be a part of alien insurrection and the AVP flicks. How anyone could get on board with AVP is beyond me.
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genjitsu17
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Forgot about E.H. That was pretty cool. Yeah R.E. films are soooooooooooo terrible. Verped a little just thinking about them.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
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Engineer Tech Brett
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I take the same sort of view as Joeyjoe on this one. Alien, Aliens, Alien3 and Prometheus are canon. Anything else is a no for me at the minute. I love the predator films aswell but i dont really want the two to mix ulness its a game or comic. The AVP films were just awful money making exercises. I really hate them along with Alien Resurrection and Joss Whedon

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

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Gavin
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@ joeyjoe - brandywine productions AKA David Giler and Walter Hill were also producers on AVP, AVPR an Alien Resurrection. In other words they received money for lending the production and intilectual rights, and thus had their names attached to those films, all the time not objecting against the productions.

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genjitsu17
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They bash Ressurection in the special features. Saying "They have there's and we have ours.", "Horrible idea", etc.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
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joeyjoe
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@snorkelbottom: oops. thanks for the info. lol. I didnt know that. Were they (hill and giler) really involved with the project at all or did they just lend the production rights? Genjitsu17 hit upon why i said what i said. Giler has gone on record stating that he has nothing to do with insurrection (genjitsu17 provided an accurate quote). Giler saying: they have their film and we have our films is pretty damning. A statement like that draws a rather clear line of demarcation. Its like...1-3 are the real deal and 4 is something else entirely. But again, this all really comes down to personal taste. There really is no objective way to completely eradicate avp and insurrection from the group. Afterall, they clearly have xenos in them. I just choose to believe that insurrection and the avp flicks dont exist. @tech brett: yessir..completely agree with you!
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Mr Tanker
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naysayers lol the only reason i wouldn't want them in the same universe is the idea a predator could own an engineer.
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Custodian
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"The FINAL Canon Debate" ? snorkel, don't try to believe it'll ever be over. LOL
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Gavin
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Brandywine Productions own the production rights of the Alien creature and anything relating to the universe the creatures exist in (despite the fact they have no right to own such rights), without their involvement Alien Resurrection, AVP and AVPR could never have been made. Furthermore, these are not only the same people who pushed Dan O'Bannon, the creator, out of the way to milk it for every buck, but they also commissioned Jim Cameron after he made one decent film and screwed over David Fincher a dozen times over and then reworked his original movie to meet their own ends. David Gilers statement "They have there's and we have ours." doesn't stop them signing the production rights over to make more money of an idea that was never even theirs in the first place, does it?

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Lone
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.

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

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Engineer Tech Brett
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@Snorkel Weyland Corporation is recognized as a legal entity means that it is recognized to have the rights and responsibilities like natural persons. It says Coporation because that is what the company is. the name of the corporation is Weyland Industries.

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.

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