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What David actually said to the Engineer. Mystery Revealed.

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sukkal

MemberOvomorphJune 20, 2012

SPOILER: This is about the meaning of what David said to the Engineer. If you are one of those people who doesn't want to know, don't read this. These are the words that David said to the Engineer: ida hmanâm aî kya namrrtuh zdêêtaha. gwhivah-pyorn-îttham sas daatrr kredah.

And what does it mean? Literally it breaks down to: this man (is) here because not-die he-desires. life_increase_wish to-him you-(can)-give he-believes. And what is the best approximation of what that means in everyday English? What would the sub-title have been if there had been one? This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life. And where did this information come from? It was supplied by Dr. Anil Biltoo of SOAS at the University of London. Dr. Biltoo was hired by Ridley Scott to design the Engineers’ language, teach it to the actors who learned it, and appear on screen as David's language instructor. If you've seen the film, you know what he looks and sounds like. That's also him teaching David while the rest of the crew is still in hibernation.

The Engineers’ language is based on Dr. Biltoo's own version of reconstructed Proto-Indo-European. In the fictional context of the movie, it is assumed that over 5,000 years ago contact between the Engineers and humans exposed us to this mother language whose human "daughters" are now spoken by roughly 3 billion humans. Because of this fictional "real link" in human past to the Engineers and their language within the logic of the storytelling, David is able to communicate with them. One of David's features is that he knows all forms of human communication. Some of the words in "Engineer," as it was apparently commonly called during the production, actually have a recognizable connection to modern English.

You'll likely recognize «hmanâm» as "human" or simply "man." The verb at the end. «kredah» ("he believes"), has echoes in English "creed," which is a "set of beliefs." For those who are interested in getting even more flavor of what the language is like.

Here is the full version of Schleicher's Fable in the version that the Engineers would likely understand. hyewîs yasmâ hwælnâ nahâst aqwhunsâz dadrrkta, tâm ghêrmha vagam ugênthâ, tâm magham bhrrma, tâm hâmanam hêhok bharânt. hyewîs aqwhobyun vakta; mya kêrt xnutâya vizât hmanam aqwhunsâz uh-gnathâ. aqwhunz vaktantâ: kludh hyewa! kêrt xnutâya vîvîzdama: hâmanas patâsa hyewasya hwælnam swah gwhârmam vastram hyewîzbya hwælnâ nahâst. tod aklawa hyewîs agrâm abhogtâ. Apparently Michael Fassbender spent hours and hours committing the entire fable to memory, only to have the first line of it used in the film. Poor Fassy. Corroboration HERE of the translation.

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sukkal
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@Cyclonus — Pray for the restoration. I predict that you'll be even more surprised.
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Diplomat
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(rutger impersonation) "i want more life!"
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gpC37.jpg[/IMG] ...when your marshmallows are WAY over there.
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sukkal
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It might be easier to actually get more life than to pronounce the [i]gwh[/i] in [url=http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/gwhiva.mp3][i]gwhiva[/i][/url], which is the word for it. ;)
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Indy John
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Are posters that want to speak the Engineers' language? I hope that Shaw is a quick learner as she and David race for the next adventure...so she can communicate,,with the 'aliens' she finds,,
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Indy John
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"...Pray for the restoration.." Many notes look forward to the restoration..added 20 minutes or so to the movie...and somehow the story will become clerer,,plat holes disappear..and all will be answered,, The more we hope foer and expect answers..clarifications.and better movie experience,, I thiunk we will be more disappointed,, Just look at the sheer number of threads,,,notes, at this site.. the 'restoration could not even begin to address the issue we think are important. Take what you get for this movie..look forward to the next installment..and quit burning so many brain ells on additional theories that do not relate to the story presented on the screen.. Hmm I wonder if Engineers watched movies??
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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sukkal
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There is NO WAY that "all will be answered." I agree with you on that point 100%, but I'm confident that more INTERESTING questions will be asked or *could* be asked. The more those things are the focus of our "seeking" the less the more minor issues will be annoying (at least for me).
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Indy John
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"... I'm confident that more INTERESTING questions will be asked ..." It is kind of crazy for humans trying to understand the infinate,,,, However your point of 'interesting questions'..is well taken and I hope they occur..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Cup o' Goo
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Joined up just to say thank you, sukkal, for posting the translation. I was very curious to know what David said - would be great if we could have a language guide as, or even more, developed than Mark Okrand's Klingon - outside of academia, that is. I imagine it would take quite a while to coordinate the language with a consistent symbol set and syntax (assuming it hasn't been done already). Again, thanks sukkal. Off to explore other threads.
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Indy John
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"..he knew from his readings and watching holographic representations of the Engineer in action what the response might be? .." David sure could have guessed(or information supplied) that the Engineers' reaction would not be good..How could it considerating the Engineer was alone..surrounded by humans demanding answers/action? In any case by David provoking the Engineers; reaction he got rid of several crew mewmbers .. Weyland(though I still suspect he survives in some form)...and starts thinking of an exit plan for Shaw and him off this moon..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Custodian
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what's missing in Prometheus is ENGINEER SOCIAL TRIVIALITIES ... they're un-people apart from a 'language' and 'art', there's been no evidence of Engineer-Engineer interaction yet. One pilot contemporary. One sacrifice historical. And don't talk to me about the hologram scene with four Engineers, what I remember of that there was NOTHING exchanged between them, no words, no touches, not even any little dolphin trills of personal space barriers. Weird.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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sukkal
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@Cup o' Goo— Thank you, and WELCOME! I feel it was very clever of Dr. Biltoo to use PIE as the basis for his work for this film. He inherits a lot of structure from 100+ years of work, and can focus more on the phonology that way, which is ultimately what is important for a movie-going audience. Most fans would not learn ‘Engineer’ even if it were as fleshed out as Klingon. The vast majority of Star Trek fans have not learned Klingon, of course. I think the main make-or-break issue for whether a robust grammatical sketch and lexicon of the language are produced and released or not will hinge on a green light for [i]Paradise[/i]. If Shaw and David are headed to the Engineers’ home world, then I would expect a lot of dialogue in ‘Engineer’ there. If Ridley makes it important in the future and FOX gloms onto that as a potential money-maker, then there may be something extensive done... If you want a full (but very technical overview) of PIE, I suggest you visit [url=http://dnghu.org/en/Indo-European%20grammar/]THIS SITE[/url]. @FreePlanet— This is precisely my primary objection to this cut for the theatrical release. I am hopeful that we will see them being less-un-people in a different version of the film. If Ridley decided at the 11th hour to de-people-ize them intentionally and permanently then there is not a lot left for me here in this franchise. I'll stop praying for the Restoration and start praying for him to have better sense in his efforts on the next [i]Blade Runner[/i].
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Custodian
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Wow, Sukkal, so sorry to hear that you'll abandon this 'franchise' just because it was INTENTIONALLY OBFUSCATIONIST, isn't that the role of Hollywood these days? TO CONFUSE and COUNFOUND the audience, not to enlighten and enrich their growing minds? to let them see the NAKED LUNCH moment when the nourishment on the end of every fork is revealed for the 'useless eater'?
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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sukkal
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@FreePlanet— Please allow me to clarify. [quote=sukkal][i]If Ridley decided at the 11th hour to de-people-ize them intentionally and permanently then there is not a lot left for me here in this franchise.[/i][/quote] By this, I mean that if in any sequel the Engineers are not featured and elucidated a bit more, the franchise won't remain very interesting to me. I don't care about the hammerpede, or Spike, really. I'm not "anti-Spike", but he/she as an existential threat could never be as interesting to me as The Engineers, living forever, and finding out that that's not all it's cracked up to be. I feel that Ridley sees Shaw as having something to TEACH the Engineers, even if that's not about Jehovah; just as we have a lot to learn from David. It's very difficult for me to see Shaw teaching anything to Spike or similar, or learning a lot from Spike or similar either, unless Spike is a catalyst for a discussion about avarice and technology getting out of control. I don't need these things to be stated explicitly for me to find the *film meaningful, but I need Shaw and David and the Engineers on screen interacting with each other for that story to be in there at all. SOMEONE decided in this cut to REMOVE the Engineers speaking and therefore revealing more about themselves to the audience. In lieu of that screen time we got Fifield sucking on a very expensive bong and then turning into a rather boring zombie after Milburn (bless his Southern heart), had a bit more cobra sandwich than he could handle. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE me some good zombies. Truly. And I'll refrain from commenting on the oral in too much detail here... But, Ridley is better than that. At least the zombie part... __ More Engineers?... YES! Please! __ More zombies?... No Thanks. Please allocate that budget above.
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BigDave
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There are so many questions, the only answers we got are... 1) The Space Jockey was a Space suit that contained a race known as Engineers. 2) That these Engineers dabble about with genetics and can create and modify life and that they had something to do with the creation of life on Earth via the Sacrifice of one of their kind so his DNA would spread though the Waters and create the basic building blocks for life on Earth. We dont know 100% Why. 3) That it appears that either some of them visited Earth from time to time or indeed was stationed on Earth, up until about 2000 years ago. We dont know 100% Why. 4) That about 2000 years ago some or all of the Engineers based on LV 223 (or maybe based elsewhere) had decided that Mankind or Maybe even all life on Earth had to be wiped out with the bio Weapon Material contained within the Urns that are stored on LV 223. We dont know 100% Why. 5) That apparently LV 223 is a outpost that is used for testing and creating some kind of Bio Weapon and Storing such a Weapon. Its assumed this could be to be used on Earth but why? Then again it could be that this outpost was not just created purely to build a Weapon to kill off Mankind. 6) That the Engineers on LV 223 have the same type of ship that landed on LV 426 and that the purpose of these craft is to carry cargo that are mainly various kind of Bio Weapon (Urns in Prometheus and Eggs in Alien). 7) There is some connection between the Engineers, the substance that is in those Urns and the Xeno Organism. We dont know 100% What or Why. 8) That the Engineers do not come from LV 223 but a place referred to as their Homeworld. Thats about all we really know and been expanded on as far as the Space Jockey/Engineers and the Xeno in this movie.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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zzplural
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@FreePlanet: [i]the hologram scene with four Engineers, what I remember of that there was NOTHING exchanged between them, no words[/i] They were gesturing and using words.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
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MVMNT
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@zplural - there's definitely some dialogue
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zzplural
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Indeed. I don't know how FreePlanet could have come to any other conclusion, as it's pretty hard to miss, actually.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
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Nessimon
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First off, simply awesome sukkal! [quote="centaurian_slug"]but now we have to know what ALL the text that appears in the film says.. every single inscription.[/quote] The problem though is, that though Proto-Indo-European is reconstructed with some amount of certainty (but not a great amount), no written source exist from the people who actually spoke this language here on earth. Most likely because they didn't have a writing system. The oldest form of writing system we know of is Archaic Sumerian which was used about 5000 years ago, but not near the area where most scientists belive the Proto-Indo-Europeans lived. So one has to assume (and probably most people have) that the written language is made for the movie, and we won't know more until the author of the written language says something.
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SubsumeYou
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Yet another favorite topic that has me going here first before anything else when I'm on the computer. THANK YOU [SMILE]
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SubsumeYou
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@ Synthetic 69, if it's the the word 'destroy' that troubling for you, then perhaps maybe the Engineer was intending to finish a 2000 year old mission of renewal on earth. Can you accept that?

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