What David actually said to the Engineer. Mystery Revealed.

Ok..can someone translate this? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK684Ti1KyI]Weyland vs Engineer[/url]

Sukkal you were right about the translation. As OP [b]txeriff[/b] posted in another thread [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK684Ti1KyI&feature=youtu.be]here[/url] is the video that proves you are right. The question now is, "what did the engineer answered back?". [url=http://uk.ign.com/videos/2012/09/18/prometheus-deleted-scene]Here[/url] is another strange video.

Very interesting and that new video also. Looks like there could be even more to that scene than even these two new parts.

So, regarding what the Engineer says in "The Engineer Speaks" bonus clip... David: [i]Etaî ghwentmm pârâthu htarasyasânt. Hya aadâvâ sthaata tava kredastânt.[/i] "These people have come here from Earth. They believe that you invited them." Egineer: (as best my ear can grasp it) [i]maa vulit teva vaar ghug-non naayaa.[/i] This is a little complicated. This was originally just: [i]kva vllnâ teva?[/i], meaning "What do you want?" and that was all. In this cut we see the Engineer's lips move during [i]«vulit teva»[/i] so I believe they kept those two words close to the original and then made up the rest (ungrammatically) in ADR (automated dialogue replacement). I believe (personally, but do not know for sure) that this was due to Ridley having had a fundamental change of heart about key elements of the back story on the Engineers. I believe he changed his mind after the scenes were in the can and could not be filmed again. That's also why the Elder Engineers (and their dialogue) were cut from the beginning of the film. So, this ends up being essentially "What do you want?" and a bunch of gibberish added after. After Weyland's urging David to get on to the matter of his eternal life... David: [i]ida hmanâm aî kya namrrtuh zdêêtaha. gwhivah-pyorn-îttham sas daatrr kredah.[/i] This is the line from the original theatrical release, unchanged. Essentially: "This man wants you to give him eternal life." Engineer: [Gibberish.] This is the same line that was used in the SDCC phone promo clip. Now I know where the marketing folks got it from. David then says in English that the Engineer wanted to know [u]why[/u] Weyland wanted to live forever. What the Engineer originally was slated to ask in response was: [i]kâm gwhivah pyorn-îttham vllnaah? kva hmanâm ida magham kêrt kya etaazdêt?[/i] "Why does he want more life? What makes this man so great as to ask such a thing?" I don't know why they didn't just use this. It makes perfect sense and Weyland then explains the answers... Who knows... Finally the Engineer would have said another line that I think Ridley wanted completely struck due to the philosophical background "change of heart." That line also explains logically why the Engineer used David's head to kill Weyland, but in the Director's Commentary, Ridley has simply explained that the Engineer was offended by being talked to by "technology"... I'm bummed, but I'm not the director so that's that. Perhaps the Engineers will be more interesting in the next film due to these choices... One can always hope... It also seems possible to me that perhaps the bonus footage in the Blu-Ray's etc. will be different... ??

@sukkal, another solid post with translations. Thank you kindly! I knew David was not fully translating the engineer. Perhaps in hopes of attaining something else? I always felt Davids agenda was different even from Peter Wetland. Anyhow, why do you think the engineer spoke with such anger at first? And why do you think the engineer looked puzzled when Shaw was asking him questions?

@Davefried81 Without seeing it or hearing it, it's impossible to know what we don't know about what was filmed and what was cut out. My currently surmising leads me to believe that there were 3 evolutionary stages in the thinking about the Engineers. Stage 1: They were not conceived as a purely EVIL race of beings. Their "seeding" technology that required the sacrifice of a young (male) member of their society was truly a sacrifice. The ceremony as cut, but seen in stills, was somber but not mean, cruel, or violent in spirit. Their technology (dated by Ridley in his commentary on the DHD release) of many many millions of years ago just worked that way. There is a very clear spiritual nature present atmospherically that was removed (except for the anthem "Life" which still plays as the film opens). Even though the final scene with Weyland vs. the Engineer takes place millions and millions of years after the opening of the film, and clearly some very very bad things have been created by the Engineers themselves at LV_223, there was still a feeling of more spirituality—a well-defined belief system—in the Last Engineer. It is not necessarily the same belief system held by the Elders (missing from the opening scene), but it is something concrete for him as he encounters David, Weyland and Shaw. I also think it very possible that the Last Engineer has never seen a female Engineer and that that was his fascination with Shaw. That shows up again in the escape module in the scene where she attacks him with the ax. He seems fascinated with her. I have no idea what his real back story is. But, as originally conceived and filmed, he does not seem like a purely evil character to me. I also believe that his voice was not digitally modified (at least not much) as originally conceived. Stage 2: This is what we've seen so far now via "The Engineer Speaks" bonus material in the DHD download (mine from iTunes). He is conceived as inherently a "bad ass." He's angry and more frightening than originally conceived. I think they made up ungrammatical, SCARY-sounding dialogue to create more of this "bad-ass" effect. I think the voice was also modified intentionally electronically to create this affect. When David says: "...He asked why." That was originally true even in Stage 1, but David may not have wanted to translate the part re: "Who can be that arrogant?" Ridley's commentary does suggest that David is much more *evil* than I personally would want him to be. Of course, Weyland is evil, so like father like son. Anyway, regardless of whether the Last Engineer was intentionally re-conceived as a more bad-ass character or not, he still seemed fascinated by Shaw as a female. In both Stages he appeared fine to let her go. His confusion at her speaking could simply have been that he didn't understand why David was the only one who made sense to him verbally. He may also not have understood that she was asking something very important and passionate and sympathized with that (in Stage 1 as filmed) but not been able to know what the problem was that was so upsetting her. David's story about 2,000 years ago could be a complete fiction that he made up or a misunderstanding on his part about something he read about their "gardening" practices. Ridley does say that the back goo in one of the canisters could wipe out all of Europe, however. Stage 3: This is what ended up in the final theatrical cut. The Last Engineer does not speak a word. He just pushes the plot forward by ripping David's head off. I believe this was done so that we would know as little as possible (have as few preconceptions as possible) about the Engineers as Shaw and David depart for their home world. It was done to keep the Engineers completely ambiguous as to culture and intention. This leaves more doors open for directions in subsequent films. I personally feel that this decision contributed to part of the weirdness in the editing in the theatrical release, but I understand from a franchise perspective why it was done. That doesn't mean that I feel it was a good decision overall, but it doesn't prevent the Engineers from being revealed as more complex and interesting in follow-up films. It is very possible that the Last Engineer is simply a rogue ideologue within their society. He may be the very anarchist who formulated the black goo as a bio-weapon, or some minion from a dangerous, radical offshoot of their civilization. I just don't know. Future script directions could even have the Engineers (of their home world) teaming up with the humans of Earth to battle the progeny of the Deacon. Anything is possible.

@sukkal Good Work again... ;) So some how you can translate what David said and so that means the language he is using is actually a real one and one that that Dr tought him is a actual real DR of Ancient Languages. But the Engineer well some of his words are translatable but others are words that do not belong to the language that he is speaking, and if the Dialog at the beginning is mainly made up with bits from this language then if translated only parts could be translated and the rest not as it would be made up garble. Thats maybe why the Scene was cut then?

@BigDave, Thanks. To the best of my knowledge when Ian was filmed portraying the role of the Last Engineer, he spoke *proper* (intelligible) Engineer (again, a grammatically correct riff off of Proto-Indo-European); as did Michael. Everything that Michael is heard saying in the film and bonus material is completely *correct* and the precise meaning can be parsed and understood by anyone who knows the grammar and lexicon of the language. In post production the voice of the Last Engineer was changed to say something that if we look at a parallel in English would come out like: David: These people have come from Earth. They believe that you've invited them. Engineer: Whet vant you hone preek ranggerm boddick? David: This man doesn't want to die. He believes that you'll give him eternal life. Engineer: Flar tobbick jeek snorrin’ yabbit newrow homack!! These are sounds that *might* exist in English, but don't, as real words. And, we can't make any sense out of the second sentence at all. They did a pretty good job of matching the mouth movements that were already in the can to the dialogue done in post in ADR, but it doesn't *mean* anything. I think they had to (A) work with film already in the can and (B) they fundamentally changed their minds about what they wanted the Engineer to say. And, they didn't go back to Dr. Biltoo to ask him for help in coming up with grammatical dialogue to be voiced over by Ian or another actor in ADR. David was always likely to be the stand in for subtitles. That helps us (the audience) identify more with Weyland and Shaw (and makes it easier for David to be being dodgy about things).

O.M.G. sukkal, this is absolutely amazing and fundamentally changes everything about this film. With Ridley's brother Tony dying in such BIZARRE CIRCUMSTANCES, can you relate such a dramatic script change for Last Engineer to such a conspiracy theory? I'm asking, "Can we get someone who's a lip-reader, or has access to the SHOOTING SCRIPT, to completely define the mouth movements for L.E.'s proper script?" Why would Ridley want to altar (pun intended) the FORCED MURDER UNDER DURESS of the first Engineer? Is the process of SACRIFICIAL LAMB suddenly anathematic? Too close to the societal bone? I'm asking, of course, "Was 9/11 a BLOOD SACRIFICE? to some HHP or Higher Hollywood Power?" And on the subject of the URN LANGUAGE: as Prometheus is so obviously more Solaris or Battleship Potemkin than was originally understood - more sinister and thematically malevolent -- the goo-urns, with all the 'chinese-like' script on them ... I still don't think that'd get through Mr Perfection's creative sieve without being relevant, as old as he is. Scott's a perfectionist - was he warning about a Chinese Bio-attack?

Cheers again... I guess does it really 100% matter if there is no real translation? It can be gibberish as long as maybe they give us subtitles. So we know that somewhere along the lines basically David said... About that the crew are here because they discovered the invitation etc. Then we can assume the Engineer then asked.... Something like why have you come and what do you want. Then David tells him that Weyland wants to live forever... I see sukkal you are familiar with the work of Dr. Biltoo and the Engineer said two lines of Dialog so what do you think Ridley intended him to say in both lines?

The way it's all cut in "The Engineer Speaks" bonus material, I think the Engineer is supposed to be asking essentially two things: 1) Why are you here and what do you want? (Engineer is a bit surprised by alien (human) presence, but essentially neutral in his question.) 2) Who does HE (Weyland) think he is to ask for more life?! (Engineer is outraged at Weyland's presumption.) I think this based on the way the voice was created (attitudinally; its tone) and inserted into the cut in ADR; not because of the words themselves. Again, they are meaningless gibberish. Clearly it was critical for the Engineer to rip David's head off. That couldn't be redacted from the plot/action. So, the REASON that it happened had to be justified. They had to make the Engineer seem angry enough to justify his actions; as opposed to having him kill the human interlopers due to a policy that he must obey due to the structure of his society. I have to say though, that if you watch his face and gestures, he seems fascinated by the humans. This continues into his encounter with Shaw hiding behind the bar in Vicker's escape module. I wish that the production had been able to leave the Juggernaut "awakening" scene in tact as originally filmed. Oh well... I do think that having done it the way they did leaves things more free to make the Engineers more complex and interesting in subsequent films. That's all I hope for... And that they'll never resort to gibberish again...

THANK YOU

@ZILLA68 You're very welcome.

@sukkal Thank you for all this information. Without it, I think I would have too many questions on this film to actually like it. Do you have an idea of what the Engineers say during the sacrifice? I think it is one of the big questions (why?), and possibly the language originally used would be nearer to the actual ancestral language - if its reconstruction is actually what was pretended. Since all ancestral languages clearly must have had lots of specialized words and formalisms for sacrifice and religious ceremonies, I am sure that dialogue is the nearest this constructed language could be to the old one. Do you have any idea of what they said, in English and - if possible - in the Engineer language? Thank you again.

@Malakak, I am aware of it, and I have to agree with your assertion that it might speak to *something* (but certainly not everything) to do with the bigger picture of *why* the Engineers engage in what Ridley refers to as "gardening." But, out of respect to the production and even to the studio, who are clearly intending to make some of their money back off of it, I feel that I should wait until the 9th of October to talk about it. I've also heard a rumor that there is some podcast online already that actually reveals the dialogue. If you can find that and link it here—and if I can listen to it and understand it—then I'll be happy to give you a translation if it's not already provided in the podcast itself. I just don't want to let some cat out of Fox's very expensive bag. ;•)

@sukkal Thanks for the answer. I hope you are right, but after changing the alien language in the end, I don't think the original wording will be ever released. I even doubt that the concept and English translation of the sacrifice dialogue will be part of the Prometheus fiction, given all the holes they are leaving everywhere. I have some knowledge in Latin, which helped me with some words of David's sentences, and then with your transcription of the real sentences - it was great to know what was said in the original conversation. If some of you have the podcast or a transcription of it, I would like to hear more original words, even if I don't know the meaning. I would have liked more the original, Avatar-like type of alien language-centered world, instead of the changed, 'wAAar-Noram-raAar' concept... :-(

I understand movie editors’ (and even directors’) not taking constructed languages seriously, but there is a fascinating correlation between when they do and the film's [u]success[/u]—and when the DON’T—and let's call it "less success"... Jackson's [i]LOTR[/i] and Cameron's [i]Avatar[/i] both take their constructed languages very seriously. A lot of attention was paid to the details. Some apparently feel that the Sindarin in LOTR was not 100% "correct", but that's a really complex situation in which Tolkien is dead, so there is no ultimate authority to go back to for conformation or other consulting. Stanton did not take Barsoomian incredibly seriously in [i]JC[/i] and found a way within the fictional context to miraculously get rid of it and turn it all into English. [i]Prometheus[/i], so far, is somewhere in between. Ideally, the spoken and written languages should match up logically. Fassy took GREAT EFFORTS to get his "Engineer" correct and I have to say that in the big picture of things it's really good. But, on the other hand, a lot of *messing around* in post production has happened with the speech of Ian as the Last Engineer. Will that [u]break[/u] the movie? No, absolutely not. Would it be better for all of the pieces and parts (even the linguistic ones) to fit together more seamlessly? Yes. In my opinion I can only answer "Yes." If the Engineers were supposed to be speaking a rare indigenous North American language like [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_language]Kanien’kéha[/url], and a native speaker had taught Michael and Ian ([i]et al[/i]) to speak it, then the post folks probably wouldn't then just randomly make up some sounds for Ian's dialogue if they wanted or needed to send it off in another semantic direction. They'd probably be more respectful of the native speaker body in the real world (and afraid of criticism on the PR front). BUT, in the fictional context of the story, it doesn't really make any difference if the language was originally organic or constructed. What we have today is gibberish coming out of the "real" Engineer and the "correct" language coming out of David. It boils down to an irreparable paradox that violates (a tiny tiny portion albeit) of the realism of the film, which is ultimately necessary to support the suspension of disbelief. Ridley is very very attuned to the way things look—VISUALLY—in everything he does. Because of that, EVERYTHING in the film is visually, flawlessly PERFECT. Even the harshest critics agree with that facet of the film. If he were equally as attuned to language and story, then (barring tampering from the studio) Ian [i]et al[/i] would speak highly intelligible Engineer and there wouldn't be any holes in the plot (at least not any gaping ones). It all falls on a continuum and they (the production + the studio) prioritize with the money and algorithms that they have to work with. Welcome to Hollywood. The sad thing for me is that—in the end—it wouldn't really cost any more to do the language things correctly. Compared to 30 seconds of CGI, it's basically FREE to get a line of dialogue rendered correctly. It just requires attention to that domain of detail. If more fans cared about it and demanded it, more producers and directors would too...

This is what David said, according to the language consultant on the film: "This man wants more life. He believes you can give it to him". He was on a mission to kill mankind when he went into cryosleep. Now he is awakened by members of the same race, who have travelled across the galaxy to ask for more life!

Ridley reveals why he tears David's head off. Interestingly, it's not because the humans were asking for more life, but that he was insulted to have an android speak for the humans. What appears to be some sort of blessing when the engineer touches David, is just his conformation that he's not human. Evidently, a *huge* insult.

hmmm interesting so you mean he hates andriods - wonder why... :O