DAVIDS QUEEN

Well it does make sense if David created ( hatched ) the Queen found in ALIENS.......This I think would be much more believable than David creating the Xeno.

A couple of movies setting up the Queen ( the one from ALIENS ) as david's masterpiece would have probably worked for me.

I kind of Suspect that we would NOT be seeing the ALIENS QUEEN.

Looking at some of the Concept Work, it seemed to show some Dreams/Ambition of David to Create a Hybrid Human Birthing Machine, others indicate that the Eggs of a Female would be used to Create more Xenomorphs.  I would be interesting to see HOW those Face Huggers will be able to Procreate and i do Suspect we may have been Introduced to the EGG MORPH.

Looking at his Notes and comments by RS, we see that David has taken Great Care in Obtaining Various Traits from Various Organisms with the AID of the Black Goo and also the Neomorph Spores to Create a few Specimens, but it was with the AID of Dr Shaw (her Egg Cells) that he managed to get to those Eggs.

I suspect he would try to USE more Human Females in order to USE their Egg Cells to EVOLVE into Ovomorphs he may also try and Create a Hybrid that can maybe LAY EGGS well Give Birth to Eggs or maybe even Face Huggers?

Maybe we could get to the ALIENS QUEEN? who knows?  I just think that RS would TRY show something Different and more Disturbing.

Maybe his QUEEN could be a Female Synthetic Construct who may arrive in another Human Ship at some point?  His Xenomorph does lack the more Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Atheistic and RS said the Xenomorph has some EVOLVING to do before we get to ALIEN

IF some Androids who will appear are PART Organic/Synthetic then i do SUSPECT that they will become the FINAL PART of HOW we get to our Xenomorphs in ALIEN etc

This went UNUSED for the Fire and Stone Comics... but they could REUSE some Concepts that were dropped.

I like those ideas.....but, I'm wondering how they will link the prequels with the sequels? Seems further from the truth.  They already had to shoehorn the xeno into A:C just to make it a 'Alien' movie.

If they can directly tie A:C 2 to anyone of the sequels I'd be happy.

"They already had to shoehorn the xeno into A:C just to make it a 'Alien' movie"

I think a LOT of this was because they EVENTUALLY thought that the FANS would want to KNOW about the Space Jockey Event....  But they also wanted to keep the David becomes a Creator Plot from Earlier Drafts and so it seemed LOGICAL to them to GIVE those Answers to LV-426 would mean we have to SET-UP how we get their and SHOW that WHERE those Eggs came from and then they THOUGHT about LETS MAKE THEM the Creation of David.

The Origin of the QUEEN from ALIENS is something that had always been UP for Debate, it seems that RS may have seen it as a Evolutionary Mutation of the Xenomorph.  It seemed that back between 2010-2011 the Idea that had was that the Engineers had been Experimenting with the Creation Tool, and some Organism to Create like 8 Variants of the Xenomorph, each being a BIT different and so each could have had a Different Procreation.

I do SUSPECT that IF we saw Ridley Scott go and Continue then he would have SHOWN us the EGG MORPH ;)

But when looking at the Prequels and Mutations/Monsters then it seems that a LOT of Success came from INFECTING a Human Egg Cell with the Xenovirus if you would... THIS is likely what CAUSED the Trilobite/Deacon.

Looking at Davids Notes it seems he Tried this with the Engineers but he FOUND that using a Human Reproductive System had given him his BEST Results.

And so i Expect that maybe Daniels would be a UNWILLING DONOR of Egg Cells to allow David to Create more Eggs.

I think the TALE at Play will FIT with the Themes of Playing GOD and especially when Creating something UNHOLY can lead to a Hubris, we also have the Search for Perfection.  And so i WOULD NOT have RULED OUT us seeing that David encounters a Advanced Synthetic Model who is more Organic than even Walter and David then Transfers his A.I Soul to this NEW BODY...

He then gets INFECTED with his OWN XENOMORPH and Gives BIRTH to the First BIO-MECHANICAL Queen.

When David is talking about PERFECTING HIS QUEEN i think he is Basically looking at the BEST and Most Efficient way that he can Create Multiple Eggs and so to Infect individual Female Human Egg Cells would be something he would see as a LONG PROCESS.

I suspect that we would have seen David go and Create a Hybrid Human/Xenomorph that would become his Queen maybe? I think he saw this as a Better Route to Reproducing such Horrors.

And so i Expect that maybe Daniels would be a UNWILLING DONOR of Egg Cells to allow David to Create more Eggs.

Dead right. I rather doubt David would even bother to wake Daniels up. As a source of human eggs, she’s pretty useful right where she is!

David creating his own hybrid...is starting to sound like Alien: Resurrection ?

Daniels + Xeno = Queen + Ripley ( Xeno blood ) = Newborn + human = Super Soldier ?

Sounds convoluted.

But this makes me admire Alien: Resurrection all the more...What a bonkers plot!

Ripley 8 had some xeno attributes...Maybe this caused the newborn to be inbred (  sure looked like it! )

Maybe a normal human and a xeno would give it the reproductive organs?

So yeah I think this is what they are going for: David creates the Queen from Aliens.

How the Queen gets to LV-426 is something else.

I think that YES we had seen the HYBRID Plot before with Ripley 8 she looked Human and only Benefited from Superior Speed and Strength as well as a Telepathic Link of sorts and ACID Blood.  The Queen looked like a Xeno-Queen its just that it gave BIRTH to the New Born which was a TRUE HYBRID as far as Aesthetically but i GUESS that the Xenomorph and Neomorph are also a HYBRID as they take some Traits from the HOST they Gestate inside.

Looking at some of the things in regards to Dr Shaw then David had said he wanted to EVOLVE her, and looking at a Number of his Drawings its seems he maybe ASPIRED to such.

And so i think we CANT rule out that we may see this HAPPEN to a Female had the Sequel got the GREEN LIGHT, we could see him using MERELY the Egg Cells too, its DIFFICULT to say.

I just DONT see that they would have David create a Royal Face Huger for instance and then we see a Queen Chest Burster that is SIMILAR to what we have in ALIENS, but as we have NOT and its UNLIKELY we shall see a Continuation then we really cant be 100% sure of WHAT would be Davids Queen.

I would ASSUME that maybe he would MUTATE someone who would be Shackled/Incapacitated to some Degree, who would then Produce like SMALL EGGS that then David would take away to Plant somewhere and watch them GROW.

I think that would be  HORRIBLE FATE for say Daniels, if she became a Mutant who was Restrained and Constantly giving Birth to Eggs, maybe you could hear some HALF HUMAN moans and Screams so we can Connect with her SUFFERING.

But this would NOT work much as i DONT think we had any Connection and so Empathy with Daniels Characters.  This kind of FATE would have worked better for Dr Shaw as it would be some CRUEL FATE for a Woman who could NOT bare a Traditional Child to be FORCED to Constantly give BIRTH to Horrors.

"How the Queen gets to LV-426 is something else"

Well it seems we WAS on a PATH to ALIEN and so YES at some point there would be a WAY that we would get THOUSANDS of EGGS that would END UP on a Engineer Ship.

Looking at the SET-UP then it would seem that the Engineer Ship in Question would either be.

1) A Ship that arrives to Planet 4, then arrives to Origae-6 and has some EGGS from Origae-6 that it then goes to take to LV-223 but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-223.

2) Or like above the Engineers take some Eggs to LV-223 where they MASS PRODUCE them and then LOAD them onto a Ship/Ships and the Derelict becomes ONE of those Ships that leaves LV-223 but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426

I just dont see that it would Conclude with a Cameron's Queen but we likely will NEVER know, UNLESS someone asks Ridley Scott and he goes onto Explain as to HOW those Eggs come to be and END UP on the Derelict.

I'd like to think the Xenomorph is a bioweapon created in a lab by the Engineers ( or David / humanity or another race) so I like this direction.

Daniels ( or someone still in hibernation ) as the progenitor is okay in my book,  David has a 1000 women to choose from...So I could see Daniels being spared and I don't see an actress wanting to do the makeup or become a monster.

I'd think a Royal Facehugger would need another lab to develop? Maybe the Covenant has the tools?

Well we can ONLY go and Speculate as to WHAT was meant by David wishing to Perfect his Queen, from AC it seems he had Conducted a LOT of Experiments but that Dr Shaws Reproductive System/Egg Cells are HOW that David got to his EGGS that he showed to ORAM.  I suspect that David wanted a Queen as in Context to a MORE EFFICIENT WAY to Produce more Eggs.

How is he going to Achieve this with those TWO FACE HUGGERS is anyone's Guess and NEVER-MIND to Engineer Hybrids, i think the BLACK GOO is something he would MAYBE need to achieve any of that.

The Least Convoluted way would be that IF we saw ONE of the Face Huggers either Evolves or gets Engineered to Produce a Queen Chest Buster.

Without any Sequel or Comments about it then we MAY NEVER KNOW what would become of those TWO FACE HUGGERS and IF we can see David go and PERFECT his Queen however or whatever that may have been.

Why show two facehuggers being recovered? Very odd. You would think showing the audience one would do the trick? "Oooh! he has a facehugger!! Cool! Maybe one apiece for Tennessee and Daniels? ( If they wanted to suggest that, they should of had David look in their direction. "One for you Mr. T  'glance' and one for you 'evil glance' miss Daniels..." )

All very interesting comments to be sure, "A superior species no doubt." I think you may have had it correct the first time BigDave....

"Maybe his QUEEN could be a Female Synthetic Construct who may arrive in another Human Ship at some point?  His Xenomorph does lack the more Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Atheistic and RS said the Xenomorph has some EVOLVING to do before we get to ALIEN

IF some Androids who will appear are PART Organic/Synthetic then i do SUSPECT that they will become the FINAL PART of HOW we get to our Xenomorphs in ALIEN etc."

In the first Alien if you all remember correctly Ash was analyzing Cain's cells before removing the facehugger?

Dallas asked Ash, "What's it doing to him?" Ash replied, "It's replacing his cell's with polarized silicone...and feeding him oxygen. If we take it off it could kill him."

Let us all consider the fork in the road here. Maybe David creates the Xeno. Maybe David does not create the Xeno.

Any way you look at it the facehugger on LV426 was taking an inorganic element "silicon" then binding the silicon to O, C, and H to make silicone. So we must speculate now that the Xeno, facehuggers are all more android-computer hybrids than bio-synthetic. These things can easily withstand the vacuum of space etc.

Looking at the Xeno vision from the last movie was maybe a clue as well that these creatures are hybrid computers. The fact that they have a bio-molecular scaffolding to ingest organics is interesting for the movies; but, in reality is more convoluted unnecessary non-sense. These large Chaps could just as easily get to work making black goo nano robots that wipe out an entire planet and then they all sit back and smoke cigars! LOOOOOOL

Anyway at this point there is too fine a line to draw unnecessary distinctions in what is bio-mechanical, what is more robot, android, nano fabrication....

It has been more than 40 years since I was first introduced to this kind of science and I really want to move on with more interesting concepts than intermediaries in the dark with sharp metal teeth.

We could spend months or years debating such things and yet I find there is so much more we could be studying.

BigDave this in no way is being negative about your post. I think you very clever when it comes to hypotheticals. I waited so many years for a real look at what should have been a more fully developed out premise in Prometheus, only to be let down and have this android David steal the show and everything else evidently - along with the ships kitchen sink.

We were supposed to get these 15 foot tall Engineer GODS! and we were handed David's lesser ambitions. For what I do not know. David is the Antithesis of everything we were supposed to see in Prometheus...Stealing fire from the God's is an old tale in itself. We never saw any God's in Prometheus the way that movie was made. Those Engineers did not look even close to entering God like hyper-dimensional existence. 

The Engineers should have been gatekeepers of some kind and the real God's revealed. RS could of at least done that for all of us yet instead he palmed us fools gold in the form of David taking us all on an even longer fools errand.

If RS every shows his face again in this franchise he better deliver something more substantial and real this time. No I do not even think there will be a next time - Disney put everything in the vault. Good for Disney, at least the larger mistakes made in these movies will not make it to the big screen again...you can just watch in private if you wish. Then again to do anything real with this pile of convoluted mess is near impossible. David's queen? or something transcendental, something never scene before in movie history?

You all know what they say....Go big or go home but do not come just half way with it.

@MonsterZero

It seems the Original Ideas were that David would SNEAK on the Ship some TINY EGGS and Alternatively a Xenomorph Embryo.  I think if you look at it from the COMPANY Perspective and you Wanted a Xenomorph the BEST way would be to have some Container/Tank and Safely (attempt to) place a Face Hugger in it... this is Essentially what the Predators did in AVPR.

And so if you look at it like that then the Egg would have made it more Convoluted (they was going to be placed in the Green House/Flora Nursery), a Xenomorph Embryo would been Easier but i can GUESS that keeping a Face Hugger instead does ALLOW for that Extra HORROR Moment when the Face Hugger attacks. (but we have seen this OVER and OVER).

I think you are Correct we maybe ONLY needed the ONE of them.... do we Conclude that the TWO are for Daniels and Tennessee?   (Ridley Scott said the NEXT Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs so i am NOT sure it would have been a Easy Case of we see D+T become a Pair of Xenomorphs.

How we get from TWO of those Face Huggers to Thousands of Xenomorphs is something we have YET to find out, we know that Ridley Scott had indicated the Xenomorph is NOT QUITE there yet.... it has some more Evolving before we get to what we see in ALIEN.

We also could NOT rule out that David has some Perverted Mind and Intention to Create a Female Companion and THIS is what he means by a Queen?  Could we have Eventually seen him TURN say Daniels into something like HR Giger's Lith

It seems the Dr Shaw from Alien Covenant has some Easter Egg Nod to the HR Giger Works, and the Marvel ALIEN Comic series seems to have taken some Inspiration from Similar HR Giger Works.

Would we have seen this or similar?  Who Knows... the Main part of the Synopsis seemed to be that David wants to Continue to Create but it will NOT be about Xenomorphs, but what we do KNOW is that by the Time we had Concluded (another 2-3 Movies) then we would have seen HOW we get from Davids Xenomorph to the THOUSANDS of Eggs on the Derelict.

"It's replacing his cell's with polarized silicone...and feeding him oxygen. If we take it off it could kill him."

Certainly Black Ant ;)

The First Time we saw the Xenomorph in ADULT FORM it looked more Mechanical/Synthetic than anything Organic, inc its Metallic Teeth.  And so YES it looked more like some kind of Robot than a Organic Creature.

I think that LIKE IT.... or NOT.... when we look at Davids Xenomorphs that have some Evolving to do, then you could WONDER as to IF/WHEN will a Synthetic Element be Added to the Process?

If  the Revelations would Conclude that a SYNTHETIC is what would be that FINAL JIGSAW PIECE.... and the Beasts Origins are Davids Creation... then i GUESS this would UPLIFT the Fascination that ASH had with the Xenomorph.

But i AGREE... that IF we get that Conclusion and even WHAT we have learned so FAR then YES i am sure its NOT what most of us would have Envisioned or even Wanted to see.

When we look back at ALIEN and Consider the Art of HR Giger then you have that Surreal Merger of Organic and None-Organic where you CANT make out where the Organic Begins or Ends and Vice Versa...

TRULY UNIQUE AESTHETIC.

A Shoe-Horned way to that Aesthetic could be some MESSING about with the Black Goo would TRIGGER a Mutation where the Pathogen can then INFECT None-Organic Material and Imprint Xenomorph DNA into it...

YES this is Scientifically Stupid to a Degree.... but this is SCI-FI and it would explain the Aesthetic Difference between the Derelict/Juggernaught and the Xenomorph from AC to ALIEN............... such a Mutation/Change would be Trouble for David and make him be able to be INFECTED too....(i would NOT have Ruled Out that the Space Jockey would be David).

But to Continue.... and going OFF TOPIC.

Then YES what we had in ALIEN and especially when you Listen to HR Gigers Ideas was something VERY ALIEN, very Surreal/Lovecraftian.

A Derelict thats Grown, and Actually would Produce the Eggs that some Humanoids (Space Jockey) would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate them. With the Ship having a Genetic (if you would) well a Connection to the Xenomorph DNA (well Traits).  in HR Gigers idea/mind the QUEEN was the SHIP

I'm currently writing an Alien versus Predator reboot fanfiction, I want to include some of these rejected concepts for my Engineers

https://www.scified.com/topic/50490

@BigDave, hats off to you sir! and cheers! Always the consummate professional.

I enjoyed this post very much, especially this last part here..."

"Then YES what we had in ALIEN and especially when you Listen to HR Gigers Ideas was something VERY ALIEN, very Surreal/Lovecraftian.

A Derelict thats Grown, and Actually would Produce the Eggs that some Humanoids (Space Jockey) would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate them. With the Ship having a Genetic (if you would) well a Connection to the Xenomorph DNA (well Traits).  in HR Gigers idea/mind the QUEEN was the SHIP"

This resonates so deeply, so profoundly...what an incredible choice of words. Yes yes and yes the ship is the progenitor of these "eggs" and so this my good sir! THIS IS THE STUFF OF GODS.

If only you were writing these movies a long time ago before those other useless writers got there.

@BigDave, that gels with my own thoughts about the derelict - that it is in a sense 'alive' and bio-mechanical. More grown than manufactured. It could stem from a time that pre-dates Engineers even. We need more thinking like that, to take us away from the mundane concerns of humans, and more in the direction of a universe that is utterly ALIEN in nature.

I think before we had Alien Covenant then YES i think you could have Explored some Ancient Origin to all that Technology and Aesthetic and had INTRODUCED another Layer before the Engineers.

The Engineers Ancestors could have been some RACE that say another HIGHER RACE had either....

1) Came Across and USED them for Hosts and were Worshiped as Gods by the Engineers Ancestors.

2) As above but THEY had Engineered  the Engineers Ancestors from some Race they Came Across.

3) They had Created the Engineers Ancestors from Scratch.

Either way we see a Rebellion a Fall of these Ancient Godlike beings where the Engineers Ancestors then either Inherent the FIRE of the GODS or they Steal it.

The THEMES of Hubris when Sub-Creating or Engineering and TRYING to Play God come into PLAY at the Higher Level.

You DONT even Need the Xenomorph as you can WRITE THEM OFF...

You can Introduce the Engineers former Enslavers and these Guys have a Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic like  the Xenomorph...... RE-INVENT the STARBEAST.

@BigDave, Hox..........just incredible, remarkable, transcendental in fact! Truly beyond words.

I am not sure how you both keep up with these levels of introspection, detection, re-combinative, synthetic mastery of this subject the way you both do at times. It is absolutely astounding. BigDave if there was ever a way to pull this entire franchise from the pit where it resides you just lifted it up effortlessly and I so humbly quote.. 

"Either way we see a Rebellion a Fall of these Ancient Godlike beings where the Engineers Ancestors then either Inherent the FIRE of the GODS or they Steal it.

The THEMES of Hubris when Sub-Creating or Engineering and TRYING to Play God come into PLAY at the Higher Level.

You DONT even Need the Xenomorph as you can WRITE THEM OFF..."

Some how BigDave you solved it entirely I believe. The equation works...the vision is grand enough all else can be forgive and so much is way in the past.

It is almost biblical what you are saying in a way too. These most ancient of themes that will eternally play out on grander scales where mere mortals are always the currency by which the Gods divine a larger flock, or create more enemies. 

Hox I think where you are going is equally prophetic as well. Your science is accurate.

So I understand it as such in this way. Please follow along. Human beings have had a spectacular evolution in the past 150 years. Our collective science has taken a complete departure from all the rest of human history. The very machines we communicate back and forth with on are proof of this and so much more. 

My main point in all of this is the structural necessity of so many things that were once completely all dependent all on analog structures. Our collective mechanical science was just crude elemental parts that our collective hands could build, the cogs and wheels if you will. However, in todays subjective scientific gestalt lays this newly found world of possibilities where machines are self building from the nano-layer (atomic lattice) and bootstrapping themselves right into the desired larger mechanisms of force. 

So this is power to behold. The next level is below the electron at the quark field and so on and so forth. So far it is all looking like we go sub electron in the next hundred years and so you do have these machine spaceships grown from the basic elements; but, more importantly you have them do it even quicker from the sub atomic level with a digital catalyst much faster than the speed of light.

Now this gentleman is stealing fire from God. I have mentioned before machines that work faster than the speed of light. Just give that a little more consideration as how it might apply to computers and digital self assembling things.

Human beings, all of us objectively, we are elucidating, deriving these new methods from all the digital systems that we have constructed that work at the speed of light. Now the real work must be done to go faster than the speed of light through sub atomic interactions, aka quantum mechanics.

Even though both of you are not scientists in the strictest of terms, what you are both saying is equally enlightening. There will be a great leap in the next 50 years as quantum computing evolves rapidly and then overtakes all other forms of thinking derivatively in every aspect of mankind.

What you are both saying is part of that next evolution through the sub atomic interactions where self mechanization is no longer the priority and this business of what is it to be a God comes fully into realization.

This was meant to be no matter what. In fact it is unavoidable. No matter what we all do next...there will be quantum computers....then there will be an even more faster mastery of self assembly at through the sub atomic level below the electron.

The aliens that inhabit all the trillions of galaxies all around us did not need to conquer or fight wars for more land. Land as we understand space in three dimensions and one variable of time is only a small barrier field. The real idea of this place is what happens when you combine other faster interactions than the speed of light. The concept of space in three dimensions is then forever irrelevant. Space and time become arbitrary concepts - infinite sets of coordinates. The multiverse is not so much as necessary a concept as the idea to project your ideas and manifest them where and when you want them is what is most important in any further scientific endeavor. The freedom to choose when, where, and why are so explicit. You both tacitly cling to the vestiges of this arcane prior analog world and yet your voices are loud and clear you secretly dream of the freeness of digital through sub atomics. 

Maybe this is not more formally understood to the both of you. Your minds can be locked in these analog functions where to dream is almost the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge. You may look brothers but don't touch, you can touch but don't eat....you may eat brothers but don't enjoy....you know the rest. Rebellion has always been at the core of our desires to be more...

We are all still primitives comparatively as it stands right now. We are all still stumbling around in the dark looking for the light....the right illumination to show us the way. Your grasps at real divinity are what all men have fought and died for though-out the ages. 

Mere fake wealth in the forms of derivatives will not do. You both want the real thing. Just remember all real things do and must come at a price.