The Space Jockey

What if the Space Jockey was an android, robot? in Prometheus and Convenant, in Aliens ship, you can see that they are standing at the entrance to the main hall humanoids. engineers. They seem to have longer arms than an engineer who is dressed in a chair later. they could be robots and one of them was in a ship on LV-426

What if the Space Jockey was an android robot? in Prometheus and Convenant in Aliens ship, you can see that they are standing at the entrance to the main hall of humanoids. engineers. they seem to have longer arms already an engineer who is dressed in a chair later. they could be robots and one of them was in a ship on LV-426

I think with RBW then all we are seeing are Easter Eggs and its in NO WAY to be Connected to the ALIEN Franchise.

Regarding the FATE/ORIGIN of the Space Jockey well with DISNEY now in Control this could be something that can be Changed... for example the Prequels Ignored!

Aesthetically and Scale wise then YES their are Differences between the Space Jockey and the Engineers in Prometheus.

This was a Deliberate Creative Decision... it was also something that would Cause some Ambiguity for Changes in the Future or to KEEP a Mystery.

If they wanted to it would NOT have been Impossible to gain a Agreement with the HR Giger Estate to give us a SHIP and Space Suit that matched what we saw in ALIEN.

At the Present the Space Jockey is OPEN for Debate it could have been Revealed as a Connected Race to the Engineers, and maybe either a OLDER or NEWER kind of Technology than what we saw in the Prequels.

It could even had been Revealed as either a Creation of Davids or even David himself.... but as we are UNLIKELY to get a Conclusion to the Prequels.. we may NEVER know the Space Jockey Identity and Event!

I do think within Context to the Franchise there is Room to Introduce another Species that are 12-15ft Tall... something that PREDATES our Engineers... maybe?

Well, first of all, we have a problem with David and the time span of 18 years since he created the xenomorph (unless we want to retcon). How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?

Secondly, the rib cage does look like bones and not a suit. However, a trunk does not have any bones so if time has gone by, it would have disappeared. Unless we want to retcon, it's an Engineer who is the Space Jockey which is what Scott wanted to show us in Prometheus. The reason why the Engineers are smaller than the Space Jockey is probably just because it was easier to make Prometheus.

In my opinion, should the Space Jockey be something else, it would be a retcon (I don't mind that).

Concerning the concept "bio-mechanical".

I think we have to decide what we are talking about:

* The aesthetics: It's just how they look

* A blend of biological and mechanical parts

* A blend of biology and machine

Most biological creatures have both biological and mechanical parts (bones). Also, humans blend with machines e.g. in hospitals (respirators, heart-lung machine, intravenous treatment, etc.)

If the Derelict is grown, and perhaps even the Space Jockey, I would say its biological - not bio-mechanical.

"How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?"

Certainly... regardless if we have a Fossil or a Space Suit, we have to look at AC and the Set Up and Assume that the Derelict Event would NOT come into Play until we have David go to Origae-6 which leaves us like 10 Years or Less for the Derelict to be on LV-426 unless they use TIME-TRAVEL or something.

" the rib cage does look like bones and not a suit. However, a trunk does not have any bones so if time has gone by"

You raise a Great Point, if we assume the Space Jockey is the Skeletal Remains of a Organism, then the TRUNK should NOT be there unless its some kind of Bone rather than Sinew, Gristle.  If we look at the Skeletons of Long Snouted, Trunked Animals on Earth they have NO Snouts of Trunks!

The Ribcage does look Skeletal to a Degree, Certainly most of it, likewise the Face (Snorkle/Trunk aside), however to me those Ribs are more Exoskeletal like the Xenormorphs ;)

We do have Dallas say it looks Fossilized and Bones bent Outwards which leads us to think we are seeing a SKELETON and indeed this was the Original Idea.. but the Skeletal remains were a ALIEN Creature that has NO real Resemblance to a Bi-Pedal Humanoid.

When i think ALIEN and what MADE it so Great and Unique then it was HR Giger, the Xenomorph (all of its Life Cycle) the Derelict, the Cargo Hold, the Pilot Room and Chair.....  they are all Designed by HR Giger.

He gave us Bio-Mechanical and to me to have the Space Jockey as a SKELETON of some ALIEN RACE would NOT be something that is HR Giger not if its all Flesh/Blood.

I have the Impression we either have a Bio-Mechanical Suit thats Connected to the Chair... or we have a Bio-Mechanical Being that Interfaces with the Chair.

Due to Scale and Aesthetic Differences, and NO Conclusion then YES they could explore the Space Jockey as either another being in a Slightly Different Space Suit and maybe the Occupant is NOT so Human looking... or we have a Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph is.

"bio-mechanical"

I think we should be looking at the HR Giger Aesthetic ;)

"If the Derelict is grown"

HR Giger Suggested this... but we CANT really Fathom to HOW ALIEN such a Species and their Ships are... so YES we are likely dealing with something ORGANIC that just has some Not So Organic Parts or as far as does-not look Traditionally Organic.

I had mentioned a Few Times maybe in Part we could be looking at something like a Plant.

His Concepts and Mural where Interesting.... he indeed seemed to feel the Derelict is Grown and the Cargo Hold would Actually Produce the Eggs, so the Derelict is kind of a Living Bio-Mechanical Organism that is MOTHER to the Eggs.  And so the Xenomorph and Derelict are implied to be Connected Genetically if you would.

Maybe they should have looked more into his Ideas and Aesthetic, and gave us something HR Giger meets Lovecraft.

"How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?"

We know very little about the pathogen. We've seen how the Engineers on Planet 4 were turned into fossils after just 10 years! Who knows what would of happened if the Nostromo didn't go boom....Might still be floating filled with the fossilized remains of the crew!

Captain of the explorer Rampage ( salvaging the remains of the Nostromo ) "What the hell happened to them!? Looks like they've been dead for millions of years!"

Fun fact: MUTHER jettisoned the core before the Nostromo exploded....What Ripley witnessed was the cores destruction. MUTHER wanted her specimen intact.

"We know very little about the pathogen. We've seen how the Engineers on Planet 4 were turned into fossils after just 10 years!"

Certainly they was Turned to like Stone... Mummified would be a Better Description than Fossilized

When we look at the Space Jockey then the AREA in Blue is where we have that Bone kind of Color, but some of  the CHAIR has also became this Color.

When we look Further into it and the PROP.... then it seems Part of the Lower Chair has also Faded to a Bone like Color!

WHY?

And so we can ask to HOW and WHY would something where some Part is Clearly Mechanical has also Changed to the same Color as the Space Jockey itself!

Until we have a Conclusion then all we can do is Speculate to what EVENT and HOW LONG and WHAT/WHY could the Chair also Turn to Bone...... but i think we cant RULE-OUT that the Space Jockey Suit/Being was NOT really Bone Color but something had Happened to make it Change.

The Best Answer i have that i have USED before, has been Elevated with the DEACON.... who had a Skin that you could say was like a Shark/Dolphin and so has that Rubber/Gloss Look to it....  which is WHAT you could say about a Cactus.

A Cactus is Organic, maybe the Space Suits are similar and so over Time they could Degrade and Change like HOW the Cactus can...

HOWEVER.... the Problem with this is Prometheus, the Dead Engineers Suits appeared to be a Dark Grey, they had NOT turned to a Bone like Color..... so WHAT could Cause such a Change with the Space Jockey and Especially in a Short Space of Time?

I think that the space jockey is an engineer that was exposed to the black goo and thus causing a mutation that makes them look like the "space jockey". In the movie it's mentioned "It's almost like it's growing out of the chair"

The elephant like mask isn't an engineer mask but rather a face hugger, the engineer sent a warning singal before it died. It is mostly likely only a few years old judging by the lore

There are Inconsistencies in the Aesthetic of the Pilot and the Ship from ALIEN to Prometheus.

something could have Infected the Ship/Pilot so they would WARP/MUTATE and GROW or so it seemed, they could give that as a Reason.  They seemed to KEEP changing HOW it would Connect to ALIEN.

Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO, as something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and knowing he was Infected he had Attempted to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426 but was Chest Busted as he was making the Landing.  This had Happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223.

And so this implied that the Engineer had Gone into Cryo-Sleep as the Outbreak had Occurred he had AWOKEN some Few Hundred Years Latter and went off on his MISSION but then Discovered his Cargo had Evolved and then Infected him.

But thats all Changed with Alien Covenant.... it would seem likely that the Space Jockey would be either.

*David

*Another Synthetic

*A Sub-Created Humanoid by David.

But it could be OPEN to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers, or even just a Human.  It seems we will NEVER get a Conclusion and in TIME i think the Prequels will be REMOVED from Canon.

So if that the Case and i have to go back to WHAT i thought it would be prior to the Prequels... then that would be some 12-15ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

I have two (or three theories) about who the space jockey is

I honestly think the best theory is that they're a sub-species of engineers, most likely similar to the ones seen getting killed by david. And yes i know that ridley scott said both are engineers but that can mean many things. None of them really look like engineers despite being claimed to be. If you look at their skin color from concept arts and their face mask thing (which i think is face hugger, but you get my point) look similar to the masks that we see the engineers wear in prometheus. Now, i know that comics are non-canon but both the engineers and the space jockey are a species called the mal'ak (Not sure if spelt correctly) which is why i think this theory holds the most sense. It could also be a mutated engineers as my previous theory said

The second is that they are a separate species which might or might not be above the engineers, There is many evidence to suggest this, first of all look at their masks, it looks like they are trying to mimic the space jockeys, and when we saw david go to "paradise" in covenant it looked like the engineers(or their sub-species) were waiting for a "god" to return, now the main problem here is that it would bring up a "god paradox" The space jockeys created the engineers but who created the space jockeys? And who created the creators of them, and so on. However this could be avoided easily.

And the third theory is that it's problem an andriod made by david or the engineers, which would make sense as they would most likely use decoys to transport bio-weapons like the xenomorphs, and it would make sense that the xenos got their bio-mechanical looks form it.

Now there are other theories that it is a human or david but those don't really make sense canon wise, but then again many things don't. I really hope that the "prometheus" saga doesn't get retconned or rebooted as it would take 2 films to make another origin story, but with disney owning the rights it is very worrying

The Space Jockey is something that has GONE through Changes....

Originally it was the Remains (Skeletal) of a Alien Organism that has NO Resemblance to a Human.  Then HR Giger came along and RS liked some of his Concepts which include Necronom V and so they did some Story Boards having the Space Jockey as similar to this Piece which would be a Bio-Mechanical being.

But then HR Giger was tasked to come up with a Original Design and he gave us the Space Jockey as in the Topic Banner, which implies either a Bio-Mechanical Being or a Space Suit.

Here are HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and NOTE the Suit (not Helmet) is Similar to the Engineers Suits we saw in Prometheus (Suit the Engineer was in Cryo-sleep with) also these beings are Bald Humanoids.

In HR Gigers Mural we see these Space Suited beings but the Image on the Right is the Latter Versions where the MASK had been Changed, this Mask has some Connection to the Space Jockey Concept.

So our Space Jockey had became a Humanoid in a Space Suit, but the Problems began when the Actual Prop was Finished and it looked more like Bones/Skeleton in some Areas....

When we get to the Prequels then the Concept Works some of them looked more like a Merger between the Space Jockey Prop and the Concept that they was Based Off, but then they also did some Concepts that made it look LESS like the Space Jockey and our Prometheus Suit were BORN.

We was Supposed to be getting some 12-15ft Engineers, then 10ft but ALAS the Final Result was 8ft and this makes some Conflict to the Space Jockey Size but we are Expected to OVERLOOK such differences.

So they wanted to give us 9-10ft Tall Engineers as of Production.  But for all Intensive Purposes as of 2012 then YES the Space Jockey would have been a Engineer.

With the Change of Direction with AC we have to ASSUME that when David tucks Daniels into Cryo-Sleep there is NO EGGS on the Derelict and Likely that the SHIP is even NOT on LV-426 yet.

And so we have NOT yet concluded to WHO the Space Jockey is and so it could be a Engineer still (LV-223 or Planet 4 kind) but if they want to AVOID any Conflicts with ALIEN then they could make the Space Jockey to be 10-12 Feet Tall, and by doing so Introduce it as either.

*A Larger Sub-Creation  of the Engineers.

*The Creators of the Engineers.

*Or a Species that has the same Creator as the Engineers have.

The Revelation of this Species does-not have to look Very Human but it should still be either.

*A Space Suit

OR

*A Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i Suspect that RS would have Revealed it as a Sub-Creation of David or David himself.

I can agree on that, due to the many retcons i think the most logical answers is that they are a sub-species of the engineers, like we saw in "paradise city". I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before.

Seeing ridley's original plans and many other pitched scripts, it is clear that the space jockey was supposed to be an engineer, but looking at giger's artwork it shows a more humanoid version of the "space jockey" somewhat similar to what we got in prometheus. I think it's most likely a mix of the space jockeys and the ones original seen in gigers art work

"I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before"

Well i think it FITS with the Theme that RS seems to be going for, which will BOIL DOWN to the ONLY thing that makes our Engineers Gods... is TIME and TECHNOLOGY/KNOWLEDGE.

And so IF the Company had Gained all their Knowledge then Mankind would be able to Genetically Alter themselves to LIVE for Longer, become Physically Superior and with the Engineers Creation Tool (GOO) they can then Create/Hybrid Lifeforms and with the Engineers Ships... then we could become the GODS.

The Space Jockey had gone through a LOT of Changes... it seemed PRIOR to the Prequels the IDEA that RS had settled on was we it was a SPACE SUIT. And Considering the Concepts by HR Giger it was NO real Surprise to me when we saw the Engineers.

The Main Dilemma comes from the SCALE i would say IF you asked RS or what he was thinking back in 2005, 2000, 1995 etc.... there would be NO WAY that he would Picture the Space Jockey Suit as being something that is WORN by a 8ft Being.  Our Downsized Pilot has came about from RS being Reluctant to USE any Special Effects to Digitally make our 7ft Actors become 12-15ft Engineers.

The Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

I think as NOTHING has been 100% Spelt Out on Screen then its OPEN to Change and so any Incoming Engineer Elders could be Portrayed as being 10ft Tall.

You turn the PLOT to be that these beings had GOT to a Point they Cant Procreate and so they Created Humanoids like on Earth to then take the Females and using their DNA with the GOO they can Infect those Females Egg Cells to Create a Hybrid Human/Engineer and these are WHAT we see on Planet 4.

> he Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

According to the official wiki, they are rougly 25 feet (8 meters) tall, and around 2 meters wide. I could very well see them being a failed sub-creation of the engineers that might have been used by david to try and create a "drone" to infect other worlds.

I personally dislike the idea that a species was directly involved with creating the engineers as it would contradict the previous 2 movies

Yes the Intention was for a  27ft Tall Space Jockey but this FAILS for the same Reasons that our Engineers in Prometheus are Plain to see they are NOT 10ft.

Ridley Scott like to use Actual Props/Sets and he does things to Create a Illusion of Scale that are UNDONE in other Shots... Example is

Using Camera Angles and having Ian Whyte (Engineer) Standing on a Platform thats at HIGHER LEVEL than Fassbender and Pearce are gives the Illusion that the Engineer is much more Taller. (seem like just under 9ft, when in Reality he was just over 7ft).

The Intended Height and Acceptance of the Space Jockey before the Prequels was 15ft (i actually think it was 13ft) and so when we STARTED on the Prequels our Engineers were INTENDED to be 12-15ft but Ridley Scott would NOT go and USE any kind of Effects to Create that Reality.

In Reality though the Pilot Chair Props are about the Same Size, and so our Prometheus Space Jockey is SMALLER than the our Space Jockey from ALIEN.

But this still means the 1979 Space Jockey would FIT in the same Chair.

Ridley Scott said about how Humans come in all Different Races... then WHY cant the Engineers?  Well i also say that IF we as Humans come in Different Sizes then WHY cant the  Engineers?

So our 7ft-8ft Basket Ball Players in the Engineers Society could mean we can have 9-10ft Engineers, and so if they SHOW us a 9-10ft Engineer who has a SUIT that FITS them and maybe we Accept something Happened to Cause this 10ft Suited Space Jockey to SWELL UP then indeed THAT would make the Scale to the Space Jockey more Accepting.

And so i would like to think the Space Jockey is a 10ft Entity/Being who maybe has Grown out of the Chair a Little (for some Reason) or they could give us a 12ft Being instead.   And if so then this BEING would be Best Shown to be ABOVE the Engineers in the Creation Layer Cake or another Sub-Creation of the Engineers.

I do Suspect that Ridley Scott would maybe thrown a Curve-ball it is David or a Sub-Creation of his though... but we MAY NEVER get to know or see that anymore.

I still think you could Explore the Space Jockey as something Else.

As i have indicated on this Topic what we have is a Space Suit where its ONLY the Skull that looks kind of like a Skeleton.

I came Across this Work by Noely Ryan

I think its a BIT too much like the NewBorn but i could Imagine where the NOSE AREA is having a Snorkel/Breathing Pipe Connected to it that Connects to the Suit/Chair....  so the Suit does-not have a Helmet per-say and EVEN if we USE the other Fifield Concept that i have used in this TOPIC in the same Way.

I think either could WORK as a Alternative Space Jockey to Introduce them as a Different Taller Species.

Love that artwork!   ( Was the NewBorn done forming? Most think the Deacon, like the newborn, was an infant? Takes awhile for the xeno....)

I'd like to think the SpaceJockey ( Alien ) is a mutated military abomination created by the Engineers splicing their own genes. Creating super soldiers.....probably exactly what the militaries on Earth would do if they could!

So the Engineers created super soldiers and gave them modified / upgraded juggernauts?