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If David created the classic xenomorph, how did thousands of eggs get aboard the derelict ship in the original Alien?

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Ati

MemberPraetorianFebruary 02, 2018

'There are currently two schools of thought on that: one where David was the first to create the classic Xenomorph, and one where he simply recreated a process via his experimentation that others had already mastered. And which theory is correct depends on the age of the derelict ship in Alien (1979).

It is often presumed that the derelict ship found on LV-426 in Alien had been there for thousands of years because Dallas makes a comment about the corpse of the pilot looking "fossilized". However, as Prometheus highlighted, the Engineers wear a suit and helmet that resembles an exoskeleton, and so this may appear to look like fossilized remains when in actuality it isn't (the crew of the Nostromo did not make a thorough examination of the pilot, merely a brief visual inspection and an assumption). At the time, the makers of Alien kept everything about the ship purposely vague, so the pilot and derelict ship could have crashed on LV-426 much more recently, after Alien Covenant, but perhaps only years or even months before the Nostromo was rerouted there. Given the fact that Alien: Covenant takes place only 19 years before Alien, it is possible we will see the derelict ship crash on the planet in a future film.

If we assume this to be the case, then David may have created the first Xenomorph, but it should also be noted that David's version differs somewhat from the classic Alien Xenomorph in a few places. First, when it hatches, it seems to be covered in some kind of amniotic sac, and it is already fully formed, with an elongated head and limbs. This is in contrast to the classic chestburster, which was much more snake-like and did not have limbs. As David explains, the black mutagen from Prometheus can exist in many forms: as a liquid and even in an airborn gaseous form. Different forms of the mutagen combined with different lifeforms can produce wholly different results. So far, we have seen the mutagen decimating everything in its gaseous form; it can mutate a corpse in liquid form, create snake-like creatures from worms, giant squid-like facehugger embryos inside humans, and so on. In Alien: Covenant, its airborne form can create Neomorphs directly inside a living host, completely bypassing any egg or facehugger stage. So, David's Xenomorph may have been created by a process almost, but not quite, similar to the one that would later produce the Xenomorph from Alien, but he could indeed have been the first to create a Xenomorph.

The other theory assumes that the Engineer aboard the derelict ship is fossilized, or at the very least "dead a long time", and had crashed there considerably longer than 19 years before. Some assume that it was one of the Engineer ships that left LV-223 (the planet seen in Prometheus) during the outbreak of the black substance hundreds of years before (as witnessed by the Prometheus crew in a hologram). Assuming that the ship is very old, then the Xenomorphs aboard had probably been created before David even existed, and the Engineers would be their most logical creators. They may have discovered the Xenomorph the same way David did: by experimenting with the mutagen, and combining it with insects as well as several other species from their homeworld. It is even hinted that David may have used some parts from Elizabeth Shaw's body (which seems to be lacking several abdominal organs), possibly for use in creating the Xenomorph eggs (which may explain the subtle differences in appearance between his Xenomorph and the one from Alien). David may have had many trial and error attempts to get it to that stage, but if this theory is correct, he basically recreated a process that had been mastered years or even centuries before.

All of this is speculation, as no film in the series has (yet) given exclusive evidence, but it's possible and even likely that it will be explained in the next sequel.'

Source: imdb / Alien Covenant

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/

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SuperAlien
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Tiwaz

That's the beauty of alien films by Ridley Scott,  everything seems plausible and we can talk endlessly about them.

In a 2016 tweet Ridley Scott induced the idea of all humans being replicants. Failed replicants searching for their makers, wanting to live forever. Becoming a threat to the makers. There's no wonder the engineers wanted to destroy our home planet.

I don't believe in this case that engineers are younger than humans, but they indeed created the humans.

But why in all those antiquity representations it was LV223 indicated, it was how they found it, isn't it?  Why would the engineers want to tell us about LV223. What was this planet to them? Why should be important to the ancient hominids? Was the human race firstly made there? Was that the engineers' initial home world they had to subsequently abandon after the black goo incident? Was planet 4 chosen as their new home and its seeding was shown at the beginning of Prometheus?

It seems to me that Ridley Scott wanted to tell us a greater story but, following the fanboys complaints,  the xenomorph hijacked it.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

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Tiwaz
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ignorantGuy, the hints are mainly in the recent books, namely Alien: Out Of The Shadows and Alien: Sea Of Sorrow.

There are also hints in The Rage War Trilogy. The third race even has a name there Drukathi. But TRWT is a bit tricky because it has Yautja in it. A lot of ppl dislike the idea of Predators being in the Alienverse, personally i don't mind. As long as it is done well. Btw, the aforementioned books are all written under Fox's supervision.

It now depends on what one is willing to consider "canon" because the canon itself is highly debated at times.

daliens

"...Ridley Scott induced the idea of all humans being replicants..." that's a new one for me. On the other hand i usually ignore Ridley-rambles, he changes his mind faster then my neighbor her panties. ;) I rather stick to what is in the movies, books and/or games.

As for LV-223, that place is clearly a "lab" of sorts, to me. Sticking to my idea i could imagine the Engineers being created there. The Alienverse is brimming with megalomaniacs. Maybe the Engineers came to earth after they were created and were like "Behold, we come from the stars *eagerly pointing at the constellation* and created you *wink wink* therefor we are your gods.". Perhaps they were even ordered to do so as caretakers. Or they did it after overthrowing their masters and obtaining their tech. Since words like rebellion and civil war popped up every now and then. Wich would be similar to the Founders before they became the Rage in the Rage War.

"It's an invitation!" is, again, an assumption by Shaw/Holloway. Judging the Engineers reaction in Prom it unlikely was one.

But all of this is speculation based on what ive seen, read and played so far.

 

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

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BigDave
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I dont know how to Reply to some of this ;) This could get very lengthy ;)

"Hints of an older third race are present across the franchise. I believe even Mr. *cough* "I don't give a shit!" *achoo* said something along those lines."

I think at the basis, which started with Alien Engineers, a lot of things get changed as they go along... its hard to keep up with the many U-Turns...

Going to that comment, i think we can look at RS comments after Prometheus,  he had refereed to the Engineers as Fallen Angels which logically has to conclude...

*They are Fallen Angels because well Demons are Evil SOB's so Engineers are Malevolent beings too, hence reference.

*The Engineers are a Sub-Order of Hierarchy or even a lesser being created by another who then Rebelled against their Creators/Hierarchy as far as the Agenda and Ambitions of their Creators/Hierarchy.  This fits well in continuation to how Mankind had behaved towards the Engineers and Seeds of how David now is with Mankind and thus i feel this is the reasons for the Fallen Angel Comment.

RS mentioned after Prometheus that he DID-NOT want to meet God in the First movie, regarding the Removal of the Elders Scene.  This means that

*Engineers are not Gods, they serve a higher power/race and purpose.

*The Elders are maybe the Hierarchy/Gods or RS intends to replace the Elders with something more Godlike.

Ridley Scott also mentioned that Dr Shaw and David will be going to the Planet of the Engineers were they will meet/find these beings, who ARE-NOT Gods, not in the traditional sense and these beings are far from Benevolent.

*This would indicate we would meet a Race/Beings who are above the Engineers, but who are also not Benevolent.  The Question is in what regards?  In general, or just as we would perseve based on our Role..  So would Humans be considered Evil, because we Slaughter Animals for Food?   To the Animals its not a Benevolent Act, but to us its a requirement for our Survival.

So it is interesting to see what was planned... even prior a few months to Alien Covenant, RS had mentioned that.

*If the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then what makes it possible for the Engineers to be able to do what they do as in Seed Worlds... so he was talking about what makes Worlds Suitable to be used to create Life... he then asks... so where is the BIG GUY he then continued to mention was the Big Bang a Accident? and that Stephen Hawkings seemed to think NOT

This is kind of hinting to us that there is more above and beyond the Engineers, that there is some reason for why Worlds Exist or at the very least how some Worlds are able to support Life (Terraforming) and so it paints a picture that there was/is some other LEVEL of the Hierarchy above the Engineers, and the Engineers creation could be merely to Seed Worlds.

I will come back after to tackle a few more comments recently that are very interesting on this thread...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BigDave
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"hence a connection to the Dark Chrystal as BigDave suggested"

This is just what the Source i had from February 2015 had claimed, that the Prometheus Sequels would be a bit Matrix and Blade Runner but also ripped off a lot of the Dark Crystal Plot...  but this can-not be confirmed until we see a number of Paglen/Green Drafts, especially the Final Draft before Green came in, and the Final Draft by Green.  Until then it cant be taken as more than rumor... even though a lot of what was said adds up... especially as far as many unused ideas and concepts that have cropped up.

My way of looking at the Franchise... is always to consider first the Main Ancient Element... CREATION while RS mentioned a lot that the Engineers are Fallen Angels.... the other thing he mentioned and sticks to more so even to TODAY is the Engineers are Genetic Gardeners of Space.

Which is where i then base my theories off... rather than Aggressive Giants who created us for no reason, or as hosts to the Xenomorphs, who then either wanted us killed by Xenomorph's or created the Black Goo to turn us into Xenomorphs...

When going back to the BASICS the First ACT of Prometheus and Alien Engineers, it comes down to Creation, Evolution, Teaching of Technology.... before something event changed everything.

I think LV-223 is merely a Watch Post, a Nursery/Greenhouse where the Engineers Evolve and Experiment with their Creations and then Seed/Send down their desired Results back to Earth and other Worlds... before SOMETHING happened.

The Star Maps are in essence saying "this is where YOU was created from"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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