If David created the classic xenomorph, how did thousands of eggs get aboard the derelict ship in the original Alien?

Regarding LV-223 and the Mural....

I had mentioned a lot of times and prior to AC, that the Mural does indicate the Engineers had encountered, experimented on/with or created something RELATED to the Xenomorph.  There was not enough clues to suggest this Organism or Experiments are FROM a Xenomorph but then its so ambiguous that we cant say they are NOT FROM a Xenomorph.

The options were...

1) They Xenomorph was already known to the Engineers (somehow) and LV-223 was a attempt to Re-Engineer the Xenomorph to create various experiments in a attempt to Perfect the Organism or Harness its Genetic Traits.

2) There was another related Ancestor Parasitic Organism encountered by the Engineers, and they began similar Experiments as above to create various Organisms based on the traits of this Parasite and the Deacon and Xenomorph were Results of this.

3) The Black Goo can be manipulated to create various Organic Life, and it was manipulated to become what it was on LV-223 or became Contaminated, this leads to various Experiments and the Deacon and eventually the Xenomorph.

There are a few varieties of above but the Basis for LV-223/Mural has to show us that these Experiments, the Deacon etc are either from a Xenomorph, from some related Parasitic Organism, or from the Black Goo so that the Black Goo is either the Origin of all these, or the Black Goo came from a Xenomorph or other related Parasitic Organism.

With Alien Covenant we are shown the route that maybe the Xenomorph is just a evolutionary experiment that comes from experiments done by David on the Black Goo and Black Goo infected Organisms.

I have my theory for LV-223 that connects to Planet 4 the different Engineers, but my theory would suggest that these are not Created as a Bio-Weapon... well not originally , they are just a accidental contamination/infection or one directed as punishment to the LV-223 Engineers.

To carry on with above... 

The LV-223 Outbreak is still a Topic for Debate, some would say they heard a Deacon Scream when David activated the Hollogram, the Bodies of the Engineers proof of this... i can agree to a point as far as it appears those Bodies are Props worked on maybe as Lindeloff was working on the re-writes, because in Spaights Alien Engineers, we see the Engineer bodies are implied to have suffered from a mixture of Chest Buster Wounds/Holes and then Wounds caused by Xenomorph related Organisms.

Prometheus changed the Plot, we saw no Xenomorphs, we could ponder a Deacon attack, but those Dead Engineer Bodies appeared HOLLOW apart from the Head in the Sterile Ampoule/Big Head Room. Dr Shaw references she has seen this before (Ebola Outbreak) and when looking at the Engineer clues from Sacrificial Scene too, and Exploding Engineers Head, my theory was always that these Engineers got infected with the Goo and it was in the Process of Breaking Down their DNA... They would have just disintegrated to nothing or just liquid etc...

i liken the Effects of the Sacrificial Goo as a Voilent Chemical Reaction, one that if contained within a Pressured Suit would have no place to go and build up pressure and then Explode from which ever part of the Pressured Container it could...  (Space Suits) much like when you put certain Mints into Cola and Shake the Bottle, a Violent Reaction occurs and then the Cola will try and escape from the point of least resistance.   If the Bottles had Holes in them and you patched the Holes up with Sticky/Scotch Tape then poured Cola into the Bottle the Cola would not really escape.. but as soon as a Minto is added the Violent Chemical Reaction would cause it to blow out of the holes that were tapped up.

I think we saw a similar effect to the Planet 4 Engineers, but for some reason there remains just ended up as Burnt/Mummified corpses.

The Environment in the Big Head Room, must have prevented the Spread/Effect of the Black Goo, hence why the Engineers were running to this Room. Hence why the Head was in a Preserved State.

The Prometheus Crew, maybe by removing their Helmets infected this Environment and caused the Urns to leak.

'To tie David's work to Alien might require the space jockey to visit the Engineer's world after David had left with the Covenant, collect the data, maybe re-vive Walter to get info, re-create the eggs, leave the planet for an LV moon, hits a wormhole and travels back in time 1800 years but arrives in the wrong sector of space and headed toward the wrong moon, discovers a facehugger is at large in the ship but it's too late as the facehugger surprises the space jockey, impregnates him and kills him forcing the crash on LV426.' - by Theseus

Last year I had a similar idea with David jumping back in time but your idea with the Space Jockey is a much better one.

'If David's work doesn't get tied to LV426 then the sj would have to be a separate story. Maybe you could tie it to the outbreak on LV223 but there's too much time in-between events according to RS. I think it would make more sense to make the sj a separate race related to the Engineers, a sister race if you will, that developed the xeno bio technology on their own.' - by Theseus

As for the SJ, I think every fan would like to see a new race in the AC sequel, 'a separate race' with less human facial appearance.

'we see the Engineer bodies are implied to have suffered from a mixture of Chest Buster Wounds/Holes and then Wounds caused by Xenomorph related Organisms.' - by BigDave

I think the goo urn bombing scene in Alien Covenant shows and explains what happened to the LV-223 Engineers. They suffered from the exiting parasites looking very similar to the black goo.

From the text of the original article:

'In Alien: Covenant, its airborne form can create Neomorphs directly inside a living host, completely bypassing any egg or facehugger stage.'

That is not true!

The killer spore pod (mutated from fungus) itself is the egg stage, and the insect-like mots attacking a host/flying in the air equal to the facehugger stage in this case.

The process in Alien Covenant:

Mutagenic pathogen (black goo/virus) --> host (fungus) --> hybridized creature (insect-like motes in pods) --> host again (Ledward) --> xenomorph-like hybridized creature (the Neomorph)

I certainly hope we will get either a Separate Race or a Related but Larger Humanoid Race to be the Space Jockey, even if we see 10ft beings as at the moment the 7.5ft Engineers certainly are a inconstancy with the Space Jockey Size... but alas this could be kept as just a Oversight.

The Whole Time Travel Aspect i think should be avoided, if the Engineers or other Race above them can Traverse Time, then why not Undo what they have done... or go to the Future see whats going down and then go back in the past to UNDO anything they are not pleased or feel threatened with.

HOWEVER... i have proposed before a Time Travel Element, that would fit...

LV-223 is a big in-continuity in the Franchise.. unless we see RS remove Aliens on-wards from Canon..   LV-223 is more Reward for the Company than the Trivial Pursuit of the Xenomorph on LV-426.  IDEALLY we need LV-223 to be eradicated from existance either prior to Alien in 2122 or certainly shortly after..

The Engineers or their creators, would certainly after the events of Alien Covenant, have great concerns about LV-223, you would see their options would be to Destroy Mankind...  then maybe consider Destroying LV-223.

I think if a Engineer or Related Ship went to LV-223, with the Eggs or they Engineered them on LV-223 after the events of Alien Covenant.. these Engineers etc then Destroy LV-223 as they are leaving or LV-223 is destroyed some other way.

And DESTROYED in such a Manner that the Event/Force Tears a Hole in Time and Space that drags the Derelict into it, so that it disappears from near LV-223 in the year say 2115-2120 and is tossed through the TEMPOARY Tear in Space and Time and appears in the same location but Thousands of Years prior..

This ^^^ for me would be the best case scenario to Kill TWO Birds with ONE Stone.

Certainly think similar to what happened to those Engineers could have happened on LV-223 too, but i dont quite see such a large scale Bombardment kind of outbreak...   I think however Black Goo had infected those Engineers some how... and the results would certainly be the Black Goo erupting out of the Engineers...

But the LV-223 Engineers Corpses appear Hollow, apart from the Head and so that Ampoule Room when preserved (prior to Human contaminating the Atmosphere) must put a halt to the Black Goo infection.   The Engineers who never made it, appear to having nothing left of them and so broken down like the Sacrificial Engineer.

Yet Planet 4 Engineers all ended up (most of them) as them Mummified Corpses... but i put TWO explanations for this on another thread today.

The Black Goo is a complex thing, when it was at its basis Simple, if they stuck with Prometheus and Alien Engineers...

The likely explantion for the Spores, i feel is the crashed Juggernaught had leaked some Cargo of Urns into the Water Supply that we see falling inside the Ship and under it, it appears the Ship has Crashed into the Mountain that may have a Stream running down it, hence Water in the Entrance and Water coming down inside too.

Near the Water in time we could get Mold/Spores that are Organic and the Black Goo would surely Evolve them into something that is related to the Xeno-Virus Traits turning those Spores into a Method to pass on a related Infection....   Essentially yes making the Spores like Eggs and the Motes like the Face Hugger.

Not sure if i am repeating myself here.... Too lazy to read if i have posted this here.. ;)

Alien was a Enigma, the Cargo not explored or explained, until RS latter had said this was a Egg Cargo the Space Jockey was carrying as a Weapon of War.

At the point of Alien we simply had the EGG Cargo... it was not explained how it got there....   ALIENS came along with the Queen and we was like.. ok so a Queen laid the Eggs right?

However during Alien production HR Giger had envisioned that the Egg Chamber Actually Produced the Eggs, via Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Belly like Apparatus.

At the time of after Aliens we simply had the Cargo of Eggs with no real explanation, but it was likely one of these.

1) The Ship Produces the Eggs and somehow they end up in Rows like that.

2) Some place else Produces the Eggs or they are Engineered some how and they are transported to the Cargo Hold.

3) A Queen or similar Lays them and they are Transported to the Cargo Hold.

4) A Queen or similar Lays them after it chest bursts from the Space Jockey.

Along came Prometheus and after RS had mentioned that something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved, and it got to the Space Jockey... this could imply the Cargo had Evolved, as in maybe those Urns Evolved into Eggs or indeed that something in those Urns had Evolved and then Created/Laid the Eggs.

At this point RS confirmed the Space Jockey Event happened a within a few hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak, so we are talking Few Hundred Years Prior or After.... Prometheus had clues to suggest likely after.

But Alien Covenant came along and throws that Curve-ball that if this David creator is the path they are taking then there was NO Derelict on LV-426 (at least NO Eggs) by the time of the year 2105, and with the Covenant not due to reach Origae-6 until the year 2112 we can maybe Assume that 10 years prior to ALIEN there was no Derelict on LV-426

Thus what ever transpires in the planned sequel to Alien Covenant, would leave us with some events in a 10 year period to get Davids Creations, Evolved a bit more and on a Engineer Ship within under 10 years.  

So the 2112-2122 Ball Park is when the Space Jockey event happens... if they are going the David creates the First Xenomorph route.

I really need to get to work on my TWO sequels to Alien Covenant... that would actually explain the Space Jockey event, and the Xenomorph, and how it becomes Bio-Mechanical, and how David makes a Deal with the Engineer Hierarchy, only for them to Sacrifice his new found Companion/Love Interest to get the Classic Xenomorph.

David then is angry on LV-223 at the double-cross and he sabotages a Engineer Ship Cargo...  Seeing the Error of his ways he also Destroys LV-223 but a Engineer ship manages to escape only to be tossed through a Tear in Space and Time to take it thousands of years back in time... and this causes a Egg to loose a Face Hugger... or i may figure another way the Space Jockey gets infected but still sticks with the above kind of Plot.

My TWO Projects are...

Alien: Ascension (Alien Covenant Sequel)

Alien: Absolution (the Final Part of the Prequel Saga)

this topic has been talked about n talked about n seems to be the most divisive aspect of the prequel series and no wonder. the derelict IS the beginning of the franchise. its where alien beings come into contact with humanity and starts its well known chain reaction of events. its such an important if not THE most important scene in the franchise. I can only speak for myself but imagining it to be thousands of years old gives the whole scene and thus the franchise its true mystery and wonder of the possibilities beyond our own little corner of the universe. having the derelict be thousands of years old, which I believe even during the filming of Prometheus, was the initial idea, gives so many paths and possibilities to show onscreen. I for one like the idea that the derelict was part of a fleet that attacked the facility on lv223 but something went wrong maybe due to sabotage. the signal is a warning to keep other engineer vessels away which they do but the attack on the facility goes ahead as we see the aftermath in Prometheus. now for David to be responsible restricts what can be done. we don't get flashbacks of a possible engineer civil war or a possible uprising against a higher power. iv said it before n iv made up my mind. if they do go down the route I think theyr going and David is responsible, then ill stick with alien through to prometheus and the others don't exist. I just believe the original deserves more and so do us fans. we sat through AVP and AVPR so they owe us something

Totally Agree about the Space Jockey Scene.

When looking at all the clues up to Prometheus, i was left pondering if the Space Jockey event is teased as being another Engineer ship on LV-223 after the Outbreak thats gone into Shut Down like the Juggernaught and Last Engineer's ship... his 3 other crew mates were not so lucky, they clearly appeared to suffer a Chest Buster.

So i felt Prometheus could be teasing that another ship had suffered the same fate as those Engineers in those Cry-Pods only the Space Jockey awoken a few hundred years after and not thousands of years latter (like the Engineer in Prometheus) so the Space Jockey also set off too but he was infected and Chest Busted as he barely got off LV-223.

I felt the Hammerpedes could be the Prime Candidate for what ever lead to the Xenomorph in Alien at this time too.

There are however a few inconsistencies... as far as direct LV-223 Engineer connection, but these could be now just oversights.

1) Engineer/Space Jockey Size difference

2) Derelict/Juggernaught Aesthetic differences including the Lay-Out of the Pilot Chamber.

3) The Fossilized Look of the Space Jockey.

Now the last one we know cant be a Fossil, but the color of it and appearance it looks degraded, yet the Engineer Bodys in Prometheus had been there for thousands of years and yet looked similar color and texture to the GOOD AS NEW Space Jockey Suits.

So a Logical way to explain these differences, has to be a slightly different Engineer Race/Suit and Ship and maybe revealing it to had been there for many thousands of years.

Even if David created it, as i mentioned in my previous posts there are ways around this, so that David has some input but plays either the Middle Man, or he merely Evolves/Re-Engineers the Ancient Xenomorph.

Both leaving the Final Impression on the Xenomorph as being at the hands of the Engineers or preferably another related but taller Race.

"All of this is speculation, as no film in the series has (yet) given exclusive evidence, but it's possible and even likely that it will be explained in the next sequel."

I have to agree ATI  while clues seem to hint to David the Creator there is nothing 100% concrete that dismisses the possibility of this NOT being the case.  Even though this appears to be Ridley Scotts chosen direction.

At the moment they could indeed CHANGE it so that David merely Re-Engineered his own version of the Xenomorph, taking this route would not really contradict Alien Covenant at all.

By keeping it as David, then i guess some work has to be done to try and explain some of the differences, but these could just have to be accepted as Oversights...

It appeared that Ridley Scott had intended at least TWO movies before we get any clear clue or answers to the Space Jockey/Derelict Involvement, so all things considered it would appear the sequel would not really cover the Space Jockey Event but the next movie after that likely would have.

I will Speculate that IF/WHEN Disney pick up the Franchise and attempt to do a continuation from Alien Covenant, i feel they may rather have a SINGLE movie that will give us the LINK/ANSWERS to Alien, thus its likely to be a movie that By-Passes Ridley Scotts planned Alien Covenant Sequel... Especially if David is still kept as the Architect of the Xenomorph

Guys, I think we better see some Engineers in the next installment, and I mean some Xeno-Suited Engineers!!

I'm afraid I fall into the not happy with David as creator camp. It's just so underwhelming, so unsatisfactory. That he re-engineered the Morb, I can accept.

Then again, Ridley's whole idea was that We Are The Gods Now. Those beings, those Engineers, are not Gods, not even a superior race? 

Yet, David being the sole creator doesn't ring true. The Deacon, as shown in Prometheus, was an early variant of the Morb. We witnessed it's birth, albeit through David's meddling. But the LV-223 Engineers were already aware of it, and appeared to have a shrine for the purpose of it's worship around 2,000 years before David darkened LV-223's surface. It was hinted that the Hologram Engineers were running from something which sounded very Deacon-like.

So yes, David created the Neomorphs and an early non biomechanical Morb. At the very least, the Engineers had prior knowledge of the Deacon, even if they were not it's creators.

I would tie-in the Derelict and it's pilot, with the LV-223 outbreak. Perhaps there were other ships containing eggs, or the urns disintegrated over time and the contents became eggs? We've discussed that before.

Of course, what was set up in Prometheus was largely ignored in ALIEN: Covenant, so I guess what I am talking about is now irrelevant! :) 

It certainly is something that i feel has displeased most fans (David Creator) but it fits perfectly with the kind of Philosophy that Prometheus had started.  Creation, Rebellion. Sub-Creation and Punishment.

It fits with a Tale of Hubris, with a message that Playing God and Creating Life, could be a Mistake in Hindsight, due to Creation not pleasing the Creator or performing/behaving in ways intended and seeing the Creation become displeased with its creator and rebel and then wish to pursue its own Sub-Creation..   Then REPEAT

As interesting on ONE Hand that may seem, we have the OTHER Hand which was the Engineers are responsible which Prometheus seemed to hint at... but NEITHER of these seem to be as Enigmatic, Mysterious and Alien as the Space Jockey/Derelict.

The Space Jockey Scene is still more Awe-Inspiring than the Suited Engineers, while we have a size difference  13-15ft vs now 7-8ft Engineers, Aesthetically the Juggernaught was just not as HR Giger Bio-Mechanical as the Derelict... it was LESS Organic.

Maybe these could be addressed by introducing another Race/Faction but it could now have to be just a Oversight.

I will add that EVEN IF they stick to the Path that without Davids input there would be NO Xenomorph in Alien, thus David is the Creator of the Protomorph at least.

Prometheus/Alien Covenant still show us the Engineers had encountered/Re-Engineered or maybe Created something similar to the Deacon/Xenomorph many THOUSANDS of Years ago.

So even if we have to Accept David as the Creator, then we have to remember the Xenomorph is really only ONE Variant of the Morb and the Engineers have had dealings and no doubt there had many many other versions in the Distant Past.   And also this means many more versions for the Future.

We still have the Mystery of the Mural and Frescos from Promethues, this may now just be our NEW Space Jockey Equivalent Mystery.

to me the mural and frescos from Prometheus aren't on the same level of as the derelict scene. I accept its most likely due to nostalgia but its what the derelict represents. totally alien life out there existing for millions of years and wev stumbled into the middle of something we don't understand nor can we comprehend it. the murals, to me, show that the engineer species has integrated this other species into its life cycle and it is not seen as a threat but more a saviour, something to be worshipped as it may, as some have theorised, have become the only method of reproduction for the engineer race or they see it as a transformation into a more perfect being. the derelict scene offers so much more broad scope on alien existence imo. we could have seen endless possibilities of flashbacks on how it got there limited only by imagination (and obviously funding) but its gna be brought down to 'a synthetic Attila the Hun' did it and its not that alien???????? for me its a cop out. its robbed me of the amazing things we could have seen especially when in Prometheus its clear the train of thought was the derelict and the events on the lv223 facility are connected. its only my opinion but I feel its a valid one and one shared by many.

Hopefully they will get another race to be the SJ, that could save the issue about scale if they make the SJ bigger. It depends on how big they think that the issue is.

It is alright if David made his own version of the Xeno but it would be ridiculous if he did the original monster. Screw that if that is what they decide (David as the creator), to me it would make the prequels the biggest failure of the alien movies if you look at what kind of conclusion that they come up with. To me I would probably just sigh and throw even Prometheus away, I mean Covenant is bad enough as it is. Unfortunately I am also worried that the next one will be crap and I am not too confident that Scott will make a good movie since he wants to focus a lot on David, which is not my interest at all.

Nope, I can not get interested in the themes if I do not care about the story or the characters.

Hints of an older third race are present across the franchise. I believe even Mr. *cough* "I don't give a shit!" *achoo* said something along those lines.

Recently I thought "What if the Engineers are younger than humans?". Maybe im forgetting something but what hints are there in regards of their age as a species apart from Shaw's and Holloway's assumptions. Im sure im missing something. XD ...and embarrass myself again.

Regardless, assuming that mankind is, at least, around for roughly 300k years (wich is a fact btw.) perhaps the third race took some early humans to modify them. That could make the Planet 4 inhabitants an  intermediate step. Like this: Human-»Planet 4-»Engineer wich would explain the obvious differences between the P4-Inhabitants and the Engineers.

Even if this process took 10k yrs 290k is still enough time to trow some shit at the fan.

Of course there's the sacrificial scene in Prom. But as far as im aware it is nowhere stated when it happened and where. I think even Scott himself stated that it not necessarily has to be earth. 

Tiwaz

Can you give me such hints? Only thing which I recall that could qualify is that weird creature with 6 xeno-type fingers that the Engineers are depicted in the murals in Prom. to have tamed (but maybe that is symbolic, and the engineers might have split from the Xeno-thing inside them, hence a connection to the Dark Chrystal as BigDave suggested). And there is Shaw's question of who created them? But maybe nobody.

And where are other artifacts scattered in the movies? I don't recall any, only mid 20's century British factories.

What RS commented about the Prom prologue, I take to mean that the Engineers were doing insemination for eons and on many places, even Earth, so therefore they could not be young. And maybe what we see in Covenant, is there version of a (i've learned my lesson is without the n) Utopia (Paradise), similar to Aldous Huxley's The Island.

But the character which represented our want to know is dead, so probably will never know this. (wasn't all this called by the movie makers as boring, and David the cool thing?)