Alien Covenant in the hot seat as Fox reports numbers for 4th fiscal quarter

Plus, why does the same television make me feel guilty about abused dogs when I can barely pay the rent?  The rich people should be pestered with those commercials, not me...

I Moon Girl The TV also has an off switch.

Truth be told, what Hollywood sell us is a fantasy. It has always been. It is rather ironic how in the movies the US is still conquering worlds when american astronauts have to hitch a ride from soviet rockets if they want to visit the space station.

Right.

Remember that feeling guilty is a self imposed feeling. I used to get choked up on those Sarah McLaughlin commercials before I realized that those dopey dogs were post op coming out of anesthesia and that someone paid a lot of money to ask for mine.

@dk

You're right.  Most actors wouldn't take the pay cut.  It's the same in sports.  Players switch teams just for the money.  They may be barely famous, but it doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters to them is the extra million dollars.

Players would even trade in the most fame a person could have and any type of positive impact they would have on their community which loves them so much to make that extra million.  Albert Pujols is an example.  What a loser.  I don't like to call people names, but I will because I think most people could agree that Pujols should've never gone to the Angels.

I guess those numbers make sense with the obsession people have with the television.

@dk

"Remember that feeling guilty is a self imposed feeling."

Would you go so far as to say that it would be better to be unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality?

VivisectedEngineer Brett, I would not say that for myself, but a Xeno might be that way. 

dk Or a politician.

Right!

Upvoted since this thread went way OT yet things remained interesting, civil and the thread creator let it evolve. 

@dk

Right! (Also upvoted)

Good discussion joylitt , I Moon Girl , dk, et. al. :)

Don't know what Fox expects from these movies? They need to step up and have a Alien convention, publish more books/novels/novellas/comics. Grow this franchise! 

No one on Youtube is making Alien fan films...StarWars and Star Trek have hundreds!

Fan fiction for the Alien verse is 1/100th of Star Wars or even Star Trek.......And when there is Alien fan fiction,  it usually involves a Predator! lol!

This is on FOX.

@IRaptus you hit the nail on the head with your first quote. The film industry, at least the THEATER industry, is dying. Simply put. These numbers are indicative of the industry as a whole. They are going to close theaters substantially over the next several years, leaving only niche theaters like IMAX/7D,4d,super surround type experiences as the only places to go as MOST people are perfectly happy watching films at their own home theater.

Well it cost me £20.25 to watch this at IMAX premium, that included ultimate popcorn and soda and free nachos with cheese :) 

Compared to the £24 I am paying for the 4k tin edition to watch when i like.

I dont think the film done bad but obviously something went wrong.

I do hope we get another film to finish off the story.

I’m having a serious issue with trying to put things into an easy, and understandable perspective. So as best as I am able to keep up with current affairs, my simple mind has surmised the following.

Fox has not made lots of money because not enough people went to the cinema.

I think I can get my head round that bit without any difficulty.

Now for the bit I’m having a bit of trouble with.

Fox released Alien Covenant at the cinema, The movie was not a complete story and I have recently found out that if I had just waited for the blu ray with all the extras, I would get the full story without having to waste my money at the cinema in the first place watching an incomplete movie.

I’m confused, because I don’t know if Fox want me to go to the cinema in the future.

Batchpool You mean you think the bonus features from the blu ray complete the story?

@ Joylitt

 Are you informing me that it does’nt complete the story? Well that’s a bit disappointing. But would I feel ripped off to the point where I feel like I have just taken out a subscription to a mail order book club and used my eternal soul as a deposit?

Batchpool Well, I'm just not quite sure what part of the story you think it needs completing. But yeah, I understand the feeling, many people get upset when movies are more concerned about setting up for a sequel than about working on its internal logic and completeness.

@ joylitt

The bottom line as I see it is this. There is more than one product on the market, and I would say that Fox have set a precedent here. In general, people want value for money and I cannot see why people would want to gamble their chances at a cinema, when there are alternatives that can appear to be better value for money.

Any movie goer can vote with their feet (and wallet), so it just seems insane that one hand is worried about losing bums on seats, whilst the other hand would appear to be working on losing bums on seats.

As for the storyline, I’m satisfied with were it has finished up to now. As for what comes next, what is really on my mind is whether there would be a big enough budget available to produce a next instalment that would do the franchise justice. I think what we have in Prometheus and AC works to the extent that it is within the Alien universe, but as yet has not really backed up into the original Alien movie to affect it that much. I don’t think I am that keen on having another instalment that would risk cutting too many corners just for the sake of having another film, especially if the budget is not there to deliver something that would tick all the right boxes.

I hope that it is possible to get the whole project completed and completed well. That being said, Fox will want to see a good return on whatever they might invest, and right now I think the jury is still out on deciding what direction will be taken. That might not be what people want to hear, but in the movie industry money talks.

Maybe joylitt is being paid by someone else?  I am waiting for him to start Promoting Camerons AVATAR 2 lol

Everyone has their own opinions and this is not a ALIEN-COVENANT Site its a Site contributed to all things Alien and when/if the Next movies comes along, then the Topics and Site Name to redirect to etc would be ALIEN AWAKENING instead (if this is the name they will stick to).

But i agree with ATI the Title could be misleading as there is no evidence to suggest the performance of AC has put the movie in any HOT SEAT my advice to ATI is i would not be concerned about other peoples views...  while AC indeed had disappointing results and a big problem was the Marketing Spend and so we are seeing the same Overspending on Marketing that drove up the Break Even Mark just as Terminator Genisys had.

Prometheus did a better Return than Alien Covenant % wise, but this should not affect if people Enjoyed or likes AC or even if they disliked Prometehus, we should all be entitled to our own Oppinions.

I watched AVPR few months back and saw some good in it as far as a Popcorn Flick... then i watched Aliens and it dawned to me that Aliens was just a Popcorn Flick too... just a better written, casted and filmed one...   AVPR suffered from lack of Budget and some really stupid story about making this more the Typical Teen Horror Flick...  like I know what you did Last Summer Meets AVP lol

By the way i am not saying AVPR is as Good as Aliens lol...

i dont want to be getting into details as i have covered this over and over about the Short Comings of AC.

A point i will pick out is many Sites and Articles seem to touch upon the Franchise as HORROR?

I disagree it is a SCI-FI movie that has some Horror Elements and the First one was more of a Sci-Fi Horror... And here is the Problem...

Marketing had pointed out this is a return for RS to the Alien Franchise True as far as bringing back the Horror and Xenomorph of the Original and Scarring the $£%^£ out of people.

The Franchise since Alien offered something a bit different, ALIENS was more a Alien Action Sci-Fi,  Alien 3 returned to more of the Horror Alien Sci-Fi of Alien and Alien Resurrection was more a Action movie like Aliens that was trying something a bit radical and inventive (Clones of Ripley).

Prometheus came along and tried to be a bit of a Philological and Pioneering Sci-Fi movie.... a Space 2001 meets Alien.

So the Franchise has no real set Genre... and Alien Covenant attempted to add all of the Horror from Alien and Alien 3, the Action of Aliens and Alien R and Philological elements from Prometheus into ONE Package... Acting as a Prometheus Sequel and Alien Prequel... and really not delivering on the Action/Horror or to a degree the Philological Genres.

BigDave So you really don't think Alien Covenant is in a difficult position? I mean, with all the creative decisions, this Blade Runner crossover, the flute and all the things for which this movie is being ridiculed. I would say even more than AVP and Alien Resurrection. It's the creative decisions what put Alien Covenant in the hot seat, and there is no way 20th Century Fox will invest more money in repeating the same mistakes.

When does fox ever make a good decision.. that is the biggest question.

I think fox will do the next film, if not they may sell teh franchise and someone will probably pick it up.

@joylitt

I am not so sure about Alien R and AVP... but i agree those movies did add some WTF moments that people just felt was odd and also contradicting what fans expect as Canon.

And so indeed i agree Prometheus to a degree was similar in how it covered some things that some Fans just did not want to see...  Space Jockey not being Alien and 15ft but Humanoids, who then created Mankind Blah Blah and then this Black Goo that never quite explained itself enough to those Fans as far as how it Created the Xenomorphs.

In Alien Covenant the similar kind of Curve-ball was now that David created the Xenomorph and also thus those Eggs on the Derelict can only be about 10 years or so old.

so yeah another direction, that displeased some Fans, and some fans again displeased the Prometheus connections and would rather Prometheus and David had not been involved at all.... and also while they was given Xenomorphs it was not enough Xenomorphs.

So FOX felt these kinds of Fans was who to please, and give them the Xenomorph... but it kind of Back Fired...

They also had those who liked Prometheus now disappointed...

So Yeah FOX are in a bit of a Predicament..

They tried to please  ALIEN (Horror), ALIENS (Action) Fans but they did not give enough Horror or Action to please those fans, they gave us a movie that is now heading more to ALIEN and departed from the Engineers, Gods and Shaw etc.. Yet a number of Fans are still disappointed we have yet to get Straight Up Explanation to the Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict... but we are heading there... only its now likely to be a Event 10 or less years before Alien and David created them... and this Curve-ball has ruffled as many Feathers than the "oh no the Space Jockey was a 7-8ft Bald Humanoid"

So in trying to please the Fans who wanted Xenomorphs, they have actually not done enough to please those who like Horror and Less is best of ALIEN and those who wanted the more Xenomorph Action like ALIENS

And then Curve-ball some of these Fans never liked... that 7-8ft Humanoids Create the Xenomorph with the Black Goo or the Black Goo came from Xenomorphs...  is now REPLACED with the Robot from Prometheus Created the Xenomorph.

So indeed thats a Sticky Situation.... one that maybe pleasing the Fans would have to reveal that Actually the Xenomorph is Ancient, it was created or found by a more Taller Alien Race that created the Engineers and then chose to Punish Them with the Xenomorph but back fired... so their Creations (Engineers) stole their Technology and Re-Engineered the Xenomorph DNA etc.

This ^^^ is a route that maybe would please the General Fans... but they would still Face the Problem of do we go for a more ALIEN Flick or a ALIENS... Action or Horror... Queen or No Queen etc

And so even if they by-passed Prometheus fans and what they wanted...  they would still not make a Movie that pleases every ALIEN and ALIENS Fan.

Right now they cant keep changing their minds, they cant then go and think OK lets take out the importance of the AI and David and Philosophical connections and brush them under the Carpet... because it would just discredit Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

If they Re-booted the Prequels... then RS would not have this as it would be like him having to Admit his Idea was a complete FLOP!

They have to Stick to RS Vision, they have to try and please Prometheus Fans but also give something to the ALIEN  Fans.. And forget about the Popcorn Flick Fans.

Get this Prequel/Explanation to the Derelict done..

Then go and explore a Alien Franchise Sequel movie, that is more to do with ALIENS and Action... Hell maybe give then Ripley Back too.. and the Queen..

The Problem FOX have is if they go the route i have explained above and the next lets stick to plan but try and please ALIEN and Prometheus Fans movie.... if this movie disappoints as much as Alien Covenant or more so...

Then FOX may not be willing to risk doing any more Alien movies, even ones to please the ALIENS fans...

Or they just make a Low Budget ALIENS kind of Flick that could really Suck...

So the other side of the coin, is if FOX Panic and think they have to forget Prometheus Fans, and cater for ALIEN Fans but more so ALIENS fans... and make a Popcorn Xenomorph and Queen Flick...

Very very hard Task...

They could try and please all by making TWO movies.. but they would have to separate them as One would Tread on the Toes to the Other. So one would have to be done 3 years before the other but have FOX got that $$$$ Commitment?

And if the first Flops a bit.. then its likely the 2nd would be Canceled.... and so a Prequel kind of Flick and a Aliens Sequel kind of Flick... can not happen... not Together.

Its do they Can the Prequels... and give Fans a kind of Blomkamp Fanboy Flick?

The Big Problem is i am willing to bet most Fans associate the Franchise with ALIENS and Queen, and Ripley than ALIEN never mind the Prequels

The General Public recognize Aliens more than Alien  i was suppose... And i think if we Polled every single Alien Fan who has ever commented on sites like this and Youtube, and have ever purchased Alien Franchise Merchandise and Movies.

Sadly i think the higher % would want to see more things that ALIENS showed added rather than taken out... and i think its these Fanbase Demographic is why Alien Covenant became what it was instead of the direction Paglen/Greens draft was taking.

THE BOTTOM LINE.....

$$$$$$$ Fox will want to Make money and a Poorer Popcorn Flick that makes $$$$$$ may be more suited to them than a Thought Provoking Idea that makes much less $$$

@BigDave I think you summed up the whole Fox perspective near perfectly in that last post.

BigDave Yes, that's pretty much the situation. I would add something that I think is important. There is a trend lately with horror movies specially, where the sequel is actually much better than the first film. This is possible because they they get a better script with a totally different spin on the story, a different director, different actors. So, a good idea could be to make a smaller movie that aims for that kind of universally praised status that would help renew the confidence in the franchise, and maybe add some new converts. Even if the movie makes less money than the first, it is an investment in the future. Another strategy could be making a movie like "10 Cloverfield Lane", which does not directly seem to connect with the first movie, but takes place in the same universe. If the movie is good, the audience would appreciate it for what it is.

Digital sales are hugely important. Alien Covenant has been consistently near the top of pre-orders in the UK iTunes Store for months now.

Alien: Covenant will give the company a profit (adding DVDs, Blu-rays, streaming etc.), so what is the problem?

Big Dave:

The thing is that we hadn’t had an Alien movie since 1997 (I don’t count the AVP’s) until we got Prometheus and maybe that is why many people went and saw it. It was a disappointing movie that people have different opinions about. Prometheus is a reason why AC was worse than it could have been even though it was not the only reason. To me they created a problem when they did Prometheus because it was different in a bad way but some people liked it so there are different fractions of the franchise as far as fans are concerned.

Unfortunately we have now had three disappointing Alien movies in a row so they got to make the next one a lot better. AC is a bit disappointing but still OK. Prometheus is a disappointment but AC is better than Prometheus IMO.

You say that the alien movies belong in different genres I agree. I don’t see Alien Aliens, and Prometheus as being in the same genre even though in itself isn’t a big problem because it would be bad if they were all the same.

I sort of dislike AVP and AR so. A lot should have been re-written in Prometheus but now the damage is done. They should have explained the Engineer and SJ connection better and tied it closer to the Xenos in Prometheus.

“so yeah another direction, that displeased some Fans, and some fans again displeased the Prometheus connections and would rather Prometheus and David had not been involved at all.... and also while they was given Xenomorphs it was not enough Xenomorphs.”

This is me to a degree. David could have been in it but should have been given a smaller role but he shouldn’t be the creator of the Xeno, that would be so bad. If that would be the case after the prequels are done then they should scrap them all and start the prequels over again. Blame Fox for this really. Having David re-create them wouldn’t be a problem for me and would be a lot better way of writing it (I think that ADF explained it in this way). Just because someone as a AI fetish doesn’t mean that David should be the creator of them.

Maybe I have said this before but having Xenos is not enough because we need well done characters also that we can sort of see ourselves in. Like: Oh shit, I could have been in that situation and how they react is interesting.

“do we go for a more ALIEN Flick or a ALIENS... Action or Horror... Queen or No Queen etc”

Mainly horror but more action is what I would like to see. Egg-morphing and no queen. More Alien and Aliens, less Prometheus but above all: Better characters. I believe that well written characters can save a movie even if the story isn’t that great but if a movie has bad characters it doesn’t matter if it has good visuals, whatever.

The SJ should be older than just ten years. To me it should be ancient because that would add to the mystery that I like.

“If they Re-booted the Prequels... then RS would not have this as it would be like him having to Admit his Idea was a complete FLOP!”

Well he hasn’t done that well this far. I wouldn’t be disappointed if he would admit that a lot of the ideas for the prequels and how they were done on film was bad.