Who Made The Engineers?

LOL Aliens made the Engineers! Just kidding, Shaw was trying to say that even if humans were created by Engineers that there is an Ultimate Creator of the Universes....God that created everything. We have not actually seen the Engineers create but only alter the creation. Which I think is one of the underlining messages of the film, don't mess with mother nature or you get messed.  That mural in the Head Room with the Reptilian creature and the generic Engineer might have something to do with their enhancements?

some nice ideas Gavin, but this sugests the process starts with Engineers dropping Bio Weapon Urns of Goo to turn a planets inhabitants into down the line Deacons, and these Evolve to Queens and then we also then see some Eggs Evolve to produce more Engineers.

The thing with Prometheus is we just cant rule out anything about the Xeno or Engineers, there is some connection there has to be as not only does the Space Jockey Suits/Pressure Suits and Engineer Architecture of the Tunnels and Ships all have a Xeno Bio Mech connection the Mural and Frescos shows some kind of connection. But what? And how? Maybe we will find out who knows.

I think the Prometheus Comics can lend us some light as they have worked with Ridley and he green lighted a lot of stuff in them and gave them freedome to go places with other stuff, for example if Ridley wanted the Black Goo to come from some kind of Organism, or Naturally Ocuring from some Plant Life etc i am sure he would have said you can explore certain areas but stick to some basics that he intends to use in future movies as he would not want the Movie and Books to end up explaining two different ways the Goo came about.

One things for sure we can take Ridleys comments about they did not want to meet God in the first movie and the Omission of the Elders as maybe they are going the route these Engineers are purely a creation to perform a purpose for a higher being/race and agenda.

I think thats partially why the Elders had been dropped and why the Engineer Scenes had been cut down so it portrays the Engineers in a more servent race with a single purpose as opposed to a race of creators.

So a revamp of who they orginally intended as the hierarchy could be on the cards, and one where we no longer see younger Engineers and Frail Elders who could be a older version of Engineers or a frail ancient race who created the Engineers into being something totally different that creates the Engineers.

There really is no limit to where this could go, but i do think some ties in with Ancient Culture could go hand in hand and so some of the Ancient Cultures beleafs could be used to be a slight connection to whats going in.

so i would think the Engineers are connected to the Summarian Igigi or Greek Olympians who are both decended from their creators and Gods the Anunaki and Titans of which in both cases its said there was a council of 12 of these higher Gods.

This is the kind of idea that i got from the Elders and Engineer connection.

Weather this will be the true case once the Franchise is finished is uncertain, i definately saw that the Elders Engineers and Sacrificial seemed to lack any Bio Tech inc there Ship, but the Sacrificial Scene could have been a Billion years ago or many hundreds of Millions and so i still wonder was the Xeno/Bio Tech something they latter came across and Re-Engineered and Borrowed from?

I think Prometheus had many religious undertones, and while there are some links with the Bible, it also sugested that the Bible may be one of many re-tellings and many changes to the word of God made over the years, that all come from a common source the Anunaki Tale.

And if you look at that tale there are a lot of things that add up, Weyland wanted more life from these Engineer Gods..... The Anunaki Tale tells that the first batches of Man had no short life span, and many of its tales are similar to those of the Bible,  the Floods etc to wipe out a Population,  the Anunaki Tale tells us this was needed as Mankind at that point lived for a long time and this may explain why in the Bible Noah was hundreds years old.

The Anunaki felt sorry for mankind and then re-engineered us so that we have a short life span of upto 100 years,  Maybe if this was the case they could undo such thing and that a Man could live as long as they did in Noahs time, and ultimatelty this is what Weyland wanted from the Gods who hoped to find on LV 223.

Hey Gavin what a tremendous, horrific post! And look at the can of worms you've opened.

It's problematic mainly because it's so well thought out. I've read it several times, trying to get the sense of it. What's key here is: how did the Engineers advance so far beyond mere mediums for gestation? Did some escape, hide, develop a culture over a thousand aeons? Are they just well heeled specimens equipped with anatomy influenced by one set of rules? Just another life form run amok? Is Humanity their hope of reproduction beyond the womb of a Queen?

Do we then understand then that the humanoid form is the result of Morb biology, an amalgam of traits to support their DNA, and that the Morbs themselves do not necessarily adapt to their environment but are possibly locked into a humanoid shape? Does that refute Alien 3 as canon?

I too imagined that the Engineers were simplified tools for another race, but I figured it was the SJ. Their sort of biological equivalent of David, but much more simplistic relative to their own anatomy. And yet, even in that form, Godlike (over us) in their advancement.

So in your view, the apparent worship of the Morb could be due to it's being a dark sire of humanity? Maybe it's not the anti creator, but really is THE creator. Not in a Godlike role, but that of Nature simply getting on with things, the Morb itself being an ancient life form so terrible simply because that's how one got on say, a billion years ago in the darkest depth of space. On some hideous planet where life fought for survival in ways we can scarcely imagine.

Cheers, Gavin!

Great analysis on possibly who created them cool work you guys! :)

"God created them" Quote from Ridley Scott

However, I agree to disagree because to me the Engineers are completely different in origin compared to the Xenomorph. I also think the reason why their biomech technology is shown on the Xenomorph is because its their "Creation" its "designed" to look that way. I think the Engineers come from somewhere far away from any Earth or Acheron LV426 and LV223. I also believe that they found this black goo substance from another galaxy farther away in some really really dark corner of the universe. Its almost like the goo is the primordial oozy stuff that starts DNA bio-evolution. Its highly possible that their planet has a true 'Paradise' semi-tropical feel but with some areas of the planet decayed and abandoned. Some Engineers still living and still at war with eachother.

To me it was other even more older beings that seeded the SJs planet just like they had done with Earth. Its like a biological great-great times a trillion grandfather. Maybe thats how the galaxy and universe is supposed to do is seed planets with life and one-day that life-form comes back to them when they are "old enough" to handle such information. Like us humans we took huge leaps forward every now and then and soon Weyland and his crew met up with "our creator" so to speak.

So who made
The beings 
That dropped 
The xenos
And who made
The beings 
That had
Goo 
Dropped
On them ??

Who made the
xenos ??

I can kind of see where Gavin was going with this,  as i guess you could look at it as maybe the Elders/Engineers was sick of being used as Hosts and that if they created another lifeform in their image... Mankind, then maybe we could be used as Hosts and thus spare the Engineers that fate.

but there are a lot of complex goings on that may make the whole create to be destroyed and used as hosts to not fit in with the plot...

for starters the Sacrifice Scene is to show how these Engineers Seed their Genetic Material so that they produce life on other Worlds, to me the scene mainly showed the Engineer Sacrifice as being the Catalyst to kick start Evolution of Basic Life into Complex and thus could be set about Billion or many Hundreds of Millions of years ago, and then also why did they visit us and teach us stuff, if we are purely Hosts?

I keep trying to say this the Engineers created the xenomorph by genetic design and goo. Its not hard to understand why they are called 'Engineers' its ceratainly not for designing a bridge.

Engineers are what Shaw called them because they Engineered us, like wise Mankind refers them to Gods again because the created us.

In truth it could go deeper than the above, and there is so many possibilities.

While there is signs of some kind of Manipulation of Xenos or related Organisms, we can not be sure yet if they are a creation purely out of nothing.   Mankind was not created from nothing it required the Engineers Genetic Material to be broken down and then reformed and maybe mixed with basic life to Evolve into us.

There for there could be some Organism, or other life form that a section of these Engineers had been experiementing with to create our Xeno.

The movie is so ambigious and has so many contridicting elements that its hard to find the exact truth of whats going on,  But Prometheus does leave us clues such as the movie hinted these Engineers was making something they should not have been, and it got lose or suffered a outbreak that led to their deaths.

We have to assume thus Mankind was not created as something they was not supposed to have done, unless was done by a fraction and that our creation was against the higher powers that be in Engineer hierarchy.

But there are so many clues that seem to show the Engineers Bio-Tech and Xeno are connected do they both come from the same source? Is one created as a product of the other.

It appears LV 223 was used to create something, and so that something must be something that they may not have created at the time of the Sacrifical Engineer Scene.  We get a mix match set of clues, as we see Engineers running away from something, but then we are shown that the Engineers could have been infected with he goo and are in a process of breaking down and exploding like the head due to the voilent reaction that occurs when the Goo is breaking down a Engineer while contained within a pressured Space Suit.

But we see that for this reaction to occur it needs a generous amount of Goo to be consumed, more than Holloway had but a lot less than the Sacrificial Engineer.  How does  what we see to be at least 8 but as much as double that number of Engineers get infected with the Goo to allow them to have same effect.  And not the effect that comming into contact with as per Hammerpedes and Fifield had.

Then it comes to the Cryo Sleep Pods that appear to had been Chest Busted, did this occur after those Hollogram Engineers had been showing running to the Big Head/Ampule Room.  Or did this happen after, did it happen days before or after?

There really is a whole Mystrey that maybe we would never get answered.

Bottom line......

I think in few months time we should get some more clues via the Prometheus Comic, as they worked with Ridley and Fox as far as areas they can and can not go to....

If the Comic was to show us say the Goo was Stolen from the Predators, well if this is not what Ridley wants as the Orgins in Prometheus part 2 he would not give the Prometheus Comic Green light to use that explanation.... at the moment we do not know of the Orgins much, because so little has been released as far as the Comic, but some interviews do lead us to some clues and that they have highly calaborated with Ridley on a lot of the subjects they are covering.

so i think once the Comics are out they could show us things that a potential new movie could be touching up on also.

Which i feel is a shame as i would have liked to had found out all this stuff from the sequel first....

But one big clue again, seems to be the Comic is hinting we wont see much of the Engineers total culture which could bring us to that a section of Engineers connected to LV 223 had gone ahead and used the Secrets of Creation to go ahead and create a all manner of nasty things that they was not given permision to do so.

I will tomorrow or some other time try and give some answers to potentially that question of the OT...

I have losely covered some of this in this Topic... Movie Idea

Basically using hints Ridley said about Prometheus and its sequel at the time of the release of Prometheus.... Basically how they did not want to meet God in the first movie, and maybe why the Elders scenes was dropped and Engineers cut down.

And also the comment that David and Shaw are off to find these Godlike creators on Paradise who are not God in the traditional Sense (Bible/Koran) and that David is bringing Hell with him (Bio Weapon Cargo) and what happens if this stuff is exposed to God, or a Machine/Robot.

So yes that post linked Movie Idea i touch up on these more as basis for a sequel.

In nutshell our Engineers are not God, they are created by some other Race/Bieng or Machine that may be unlike the Engineers or Elders we was shown in Prometheus.

Let me just summarize potentially some of the possibilities.

1) Some Devine Supernatural Being or Entity.

Cant see this as its a bit too Cliché and Ridley said that God/Gods is not God in the traditional sense... (Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah).

2) More Ancient Relation to the Engineers (Elders).

Maybe but Ridley removed the Elders partially because he did not want to show us too much about the Engineer Culture and maybe felt the Elders did not look Godlike enough.  But we cant rule out that the creators of the Engineers are a race that is Similar i.e like the Elders, many Ancient Cultures have similar to this hierarchy such as Titans/Olympian and Anunnaki/Igigi and to a degree God/Angels however these are Spiritual/Supernatural Entities.

3) Some other Being/Race.

That may not resemble the Humanoid appearence and connection the Engineers/Elders and Mankind has.  This does not mean it can not be Humanoid, i mean Predators are Humanoid but dont look like us like Engineers do.  Or it could be something really Alien looking like out of Cthulhu.

4) Something related to the Xeno.

Some ponder if this is the case, hense reason for the Mural, but then the room also had a Head Statue of a Engineer that Milburn asked "is that God?" just as on Earth we have worshiped Murals and Statues of many Animals like the Babylonian Bull and even Hindus hold Bulls in high regard does not mean for both that God is a Bull.  We cant rule out some Organism related to the Xeno Genetically being the higher being who created the Engineers but i would sugest that the Xeno is a Organism our Engineers Engineered from Scratch, or as a Experiement to create something else, or as  experiment carried out on some other related to the Xeno Organism.

5) Some Machine.

This does not have to be in the traditional sense, and it could be something very Giger Inspired, and thus Bio-Mechanical a Living Machine, and this could be part of a structure like a Temple, it could be a Giant Machine or even a Ship as Gigers idea for the Derelict was that it was a living machine that actually created the Xeno.

5) Some Singularity or Energy that is intelligent.

Again this could be a bit related to the first choice a Devine being, only option 1 is some Supernatural Entity that is said to have some Human Form and can communicate with us. But this option is some other kind of Energy that created all life a formless void of Energy.

I would doubt so, as Ridley is hinting again not a God in traditional Sense and something that could be living to a degree.

6) They are us, or become us.

This theory could be that these Engineers and maybe Elders (unless they get scraped) are indeed Mankind and that they either Evolved to become Engineers, but then that would open a Paradox! As why create us if they come from us, and why destroy us if we become them unless its to prevent what they become so like Suicide to them. This would mean some kind of Time Travel Element.... Unless the Engineers was Mankind on another planet (Paradise) and they have Evolved and minipulated themselves over Billions of years and so for some reason they decided to to a experiement to create Mankind in their image on a new World far far away from maybe the Hell that Paradise has become?

I dont buy this one either as Ridley said he never wanted to meet God in the first movie, so the Godlike Creators can not be Engineers or related to us as above as well we would already had met Gods in Prometheus Part 1.

7) Big Bang Theory.

Yes back to the Big Bang theory in which case our Engineers could have appeared as Science and Big Bang Theorists have with our Orgins, or indeed that the Elders was created as such via Big Bang, and that these Elders then Engineered the Engineers and they inturn Engineered us, so like option 2 only that these more Ancient beings related to our Engineers was created via the Big Bang.

I have covered a topic like this before regarding God in the Prometheus/Alien Franchise and my idea for my draft for Paradise touched upon Option 2, but with maybe Option 5 being what created Option 2, or 4 or both. But this got bit to complicated so i abandoned by draft lol

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I will stick my neck out and assume that Ridley would go the route that we see a older version of the Engineers as option 2...

But these will not be God and that the Godlike top of the hierarchy above Engineers/Elders would be either Option 3 or 5... which pretty much is how i was going to persue it only leaning more to Option 5 than 3 above the Elders/Engineers.