even Cameron thinks part 1 didn't add up logically.

:) I guessed this would be the response even though some of these people were praising james before he said this. Lol one of you love the film for being illogical :D ! But facts are facts time after time you hear this opinion and even when one of the most ah wait no the most successful director says it you still ignore it lol. Still hearing the in the future everyone will love it. Well actually we are in the future now and all I see is less support :O . Not that I'm a total hater but more of a disappointed fan of Scott. Has to be said that unfortunately Cameron is winning hands down in the money making department getting 7 times the amount prometheus made with an unknown film at the time (having no fan base unlike prometheus) called avatar no less. Even though I hated the story for that. Avatar being number one in the money making chart number two being Cameron's as well with titanic which is an awesome film aliens was amazing too through not great as alien. So yes you could think one of the best directors of all time who's made the most money and even directed an alien film is wrong and millions of people support the same idea but seriously wtf! but then again there's still some people that think earth was made in 7 days so I guess it's not so strange :p. Let's hope part 2 saves the day!

Because we all know Avatar added up logically lol All Hollywood movies placed under close scrutiny never add up logically, what he's saying has no content at all. He liked the film overall though but to be fair Prometheus wasn't made to be self-contained, as it relies on a second installment for context. Avatar on the other hand is completely self-contained and has some pretty big flaws. I dare Cameron to speak to Scott about Prometheus. 

@dj Just because a negative opinion of Prometheus happens to be quite popular in many circles doesn't mean it's better than other opinions and vice versa, nor does Cameron making more money make his opinions have greater validity than others, you're making an ad populum fallacy. Prometheus operates on a very symbolic and ironic level thus it doesn't have to be entirely beholden to elementary logic. It's not a question of whether Cameron is wrong, he offered his opinion on the continuity, nothing more. Avatar falls apart under scrutiny, thus his comment is rather hypocritical. There is no definitive opinion on Prometheus, especially when questions were deliberately left unanswered, hence all the debate in the first place. Where there are well argued criticisms there are equally well argued counter-criticisms.

Like I said I personally hated avatars story even though it was unbelievably well made in other ways. But you can't knock the fact that he does seem to be doing way better in selling cinema tickets and getting critics to like his films than Scott lately even though Scott I reckon has made way better films in his earlier carrier. And no you can't really knock much of the logic in alien were as pretty much all of prometheus you can but that takes us back into all the old threads so I won't being them up again! And it's very different when a film it's set in our universe as such and is trying to be realistic like prometheus because then we can actually say hmm no people don't act that way etc....and I was just pointing out that certain people have more weight in there observations like you might ask a doctor about your health or maybe the most successful director in history about a film lol! Funny stuff...

Last I checked Prometheus takes place in the Alien universe where creatures subvert the rules of conservation of mass and where space is ruled by corporations. And who said Prometheus was trying to be realistic? The film operates on a mythic and ironic level thus it doesn't have to be limited by the strictures of realism. As for the dubious actions of the characters, that was exactly the point, why did people expect credible scientists? The movie was all about flawed and foolish characters confronting forces greater than them. No credible scientist would ever sign up to a years long journey into space without knowing why, especially if they knew the mission was based solely on the premise of cave scribbles and the hubris of a dying megalomaniac. The whole thing was a corporate funded farce, we sympathise with David because he is our audience surrogate, Lindelof wrote David as a counterpoint to the humans that Lindelof deemed to be 'morons'. Thus when people complain about the humans being stupid they don't seem to realise that that's exactly the point. 

You       don't        think     prometheus.....was trying to be realistic    :O sorry my jaw just dropped to the floor ok that will explain everything no need to go on. LOL    

I’ve nothing personal against Camerons’ films and he has done some good work. The way I see it, Cameron is critical of any film and we all need a hobby. Even if you have a film that wins higher acclaim than Avatar, he will find something wrong with it, or something that in his considered opinion needs improving on. Hurtlocker is a good example of that.

What if each group has a different view of the universe, and the Alien’s place in it?

The androids might believe that the Alien is the “perfect organism”.

The Engineers seem to place a high degree of importance on the Alien in their artwork. It's a part of their culture, and plays a role in how their culture operates. Shaw and Holloway might have thought that the mural was depicting mythological beings, but the Engineer artwork is conveying information about how the Engineers view themselves, the alien, and the way things work. How they organize themselves etc. In some ways, the mural represents the Engineer view of the universe, and the Alien lifecycle etc. It's an attempt to convey meaning, much like the Sistine chapel.

The film suggests a ceremonial/ritual aspect to the way the Engineers setup that room. Fifield and Millburn ask if they worshipped the giant head as a god. The Engineer culture has their own beliefs about the universe and the alien, their own system of organization. Which is completely different than ours.

The artwork is like a cross-section of how the Engineers think. It can be analyzed to start learning about the people who created it. It has some sort of meaning to them, and the Alien is part of what they choose to believe..

We can't determine exactly what the typical Engineer view of the Alien or the universe around them is yet, or how their culture operates. That’s the thing that’s going to be the most different between Engineers and humans: how they think and why they think it.. I've mentioned that their genetics and physiology are a match for us. So they’re like us physically, and that puts certain constraints on them, as well as helps us frame them. However, we have no clue how they think. Nor do we know about their technological prowess. 

The engineer brain would perceive the world around them in a much different way. They've had more time to develop tech, but it's nothing we couldn't develop without time and access to similar resources. Technology is a growing body of knowledge, and each culture develops their own technology as a way to master their environment. Every single species is constantly modifying their surroundings, "building better worlds" for themselves, "we're the gods now"... Conservation of resources/energy is a constant struggle. There's no organism known to man that leaves zero impact on the environment... No man needs nothing. There are slight phenotypic differences, but no differences in genotype between humans and Engineers.  Engineers need resources too...

There's some form of energy that makes David "run". I think this android eats because he needs an energy source.. David hopes he's not made "too close" to humans. No other android eats... IMO sometimes the Alien needs to consume inorganic or organic material to grow, but needs less energy. It's rarely seen feeding, however there are indications that the Alien eats when it needs to grow... Very few things would grow in that desert, the worm is evidence that there was a little bit more than nothing in the desert.. Each species acts to preserve its own interest. The Alien is a survivor; it has survival instincts in it, like Shaw..A natural form of intelligence that's hard to quantify or qualify.

In the virals they give the crew an early assessment where their brains are being scanned. I think all the crewmembers were chosen specifically for being able to be manipulated; chosen specifically for not having enough logic in their heads...Shaw had survival instincts "in her" and David actually gave her a compliment, meaning that she was naturally smarter than the rest of the crew..

In the Spaights script, David says "you're all so stupid" and attacks Shaw. I think these characters are supposed to have "half a brain", they're supposed to be slightly illogical... Supposed to be able to be manipulated by Weyland's agenda; analyzing their subconscious minds is an extension of profiling & controlling what they're thinking about by bringing certain memories to the surface. David stimulates these memories at certain points. Holding onto and giving back the cross is part of a study he's running on Shaw's mind, and how the subconscious mind influences humans' actions.

David taking the cross away, then giving it back when Shaw survives, is a form of operant conditioning,...He hopes to lead her on the next stage of his adventure with his tricks... Weyland corp has deceived people throughout the whole series. The trick concept, tricking the brain back to life, deception and even self-deception could be a big part of this series by the end. "the trick is not minding that it hurts". Shaw follows her instincts and stands up to them. She takes the alien out of herself before they get a chance to freeze her. Shaw didn't know what would happen, she suspected something was up...Just like Ripley did. Shaw reacted instinctively and kept herself alive, David admires this form of intellect. She had no proof that Weyland corp was up to no good other than the weird way David was acting, She had a gut reaction to things... Her head wasn't doing the thinking.

Their psych profiles were taken in spaight's script. I think a lot from Spaight's script was simply moved into the background by Lindelof's script. Davis/David said Shaw/Watts has the highest IQ. The dream visor, the Happy birthday viral, and the crew interviews are possible evidence that even in Lindelof's script David and Weyland corp have been messing with and analyzing their minds, as well as perceiving things no one else can... There's a psychological component to this movie. Lindelof said he only changed things around so that the emphasis was on the Engineers. It's not straight forward, the subtext of the movie tells more story than the movie itself, and I can see how Lindelof steered it away from definitive answers, for now. David has to be juxtaposed with characters who act illogically because he sees himself as superior to us. He's driven by logic. He wants to be closer to the Engineers, because he perceives them to be the superior species. David was made in our image. Some of David's comments are a critque on humanity & human culture as a whole. That's what people might not get until the second movie... David's our male lead, and his perspective is important. That first crew was expendable, as are all others to Weyland corp, and David knew this going in. Shaw is our female lead. David isn't a side character, he's just as much the star of the series as Shaw. He's a driving force in the story now...If my theory pans out the next story is partially about how Androids perceive us to be illogical, and how David thinks he can gain his freedom from us by joining with the Engineers... He knew about Weyland's true agenda. The Aliens are pure, they're free of any delusions of morality and 'you don't see them screwing eachother over for a percentage". David's beliefs might be more inline with those of Engineers...Humans can be irrational and illogical at times because of their emotions. To err is human. and we learn from our mistakes. it's what makes us human, and David has made some mistakes..

On the surface things seem illogical because we're not seeing the full thought process that led to some of the actions, and we don't understand why the characters act as they do.... Figuring out their true inner characters, and their personality types, can help explain why each character acts certain ways, and what each of their agendas were.

I think Janek was chosen specifically because he "only flies the ship"...I believe they were selected for their minds have been conditoned by Weyland. As part of Weyland corp's "trick". David brings up psychology when he asks "doesn't everyone want to see their parents dead?". I think he's been analyzing their subconscious minds to better understand their personality profiles... That's why he was watching Shaw's dreams. Because of the areas of psychology that ties into. David doesn't believe Freud's psycho-analytic theory (to which he's referring); he has his own thoughts and observations on peoples' subconscious desires... Weyland corp has been studying the crews' minds to understand how to control them... They used Shaw's beliefs against her, and almost programmed her like a robot by bringing certain thoughts to the surface and leading her on this adventure. "Anyone with half a brain can create life". Shaw's eggs were infertile, she wasn't barren.. David wants to keep her around because she's the only one who has it in her...

Self-preservation is a psychological drive that all species share. There's often not a lot of logic to it  It's not always about surivial of the fittest; it's about survival of the most adaptable... The Alien's survival mechanisms make it the "perfect organism" according to Ash. The Alien has advantages that make it more capable of dealing with its surroundings and spreading its genetics.. Ash can be objective because he's not alive, not part of the natural order of things. David's "too close" to us because of his artificial emotions... David is able to intuit some things, and can use inductive reasoning.  Death is part of the natural order of things, and the Aliens are close to death. They fill a particular niche.

Ash has an outside perspective on which species is superior; he gives the Nostromo crew his sympathies because he knows this organism is perfectly adapted for ensuring the survival of its own species... Anything it views as "the other" or "alien" it will destroy and use as a resource. The facehugger & hammerpede stage display impressive regenerative capabilities. The facehugger heals quickly, Hammerpede can re-grow its own head -- which may be advantageous for any living species... Engineers would have all of our senses, but they perceive the universe around them in a different way because of their access to different experiences and data.

Engineer culture has completely different tech, beliefs, systems of knowledge, customs/social practices etc. There are many differences to explore in the way each culture views the Alien, and the way each organizes information about the universe. Conservation of matter and energy might be viewed in a different light by them, thanks to the Alien...  Engineer brains and bodies are wired in much the same way as humans because we can use our tech on them.. However, as mentioned we can't understand exactly how the Engineers think. We don't understand how they perceive the universe, why they wanted to destroy us OR how they perceive the Alien, and why they use it as part of their system of worship..

DJ, bottom line, I don't care what Cameron thinks and I don't care what you think. I care what I think, I enjoyed the film and JC talking down to it is not gonna magically erase that.

And please, don't substantiate his position with ticket sales. I'm also not impressed by pedestrian tastes, McDonald's is similarly successful, doesn't make it good, doesn't mean I'll be seeking McDonalds opinion on fine dining.

And yes, I don't need logic, at least not in a fantasy setting. Kinda the whole point, really.

Don't need logic that kinda ends any argument lol! It could be a blank screen for 2 hours and if you don't need logic it's the best film ever lol. I prefer reality...I'm just still stunned that people could view it as not being a realistic film (or at least trying to be). Did you not see star maps from our universe references to points in our history actual dates in our future...earth...people supposedly acting like people in real life. It set in our future in this universe and trying not to step out side of our reality. Alien did this so well prometheus did not ...so many people believed they could actually be in alien it felt so real which is why it was so amazing its very hard to do. Prometheus doesn't even come close to that it feels like a film and hardly comes close to real....anyway like I said can't really argue with don't need logic lol! And yes Mc Donalds isn't fine dining it's addictive food and it does what is supposed to very well prometheus did not do what it's supposed to do and I'm afraid you don't even realise what it was supposed to be doing in the first place lol!

So to sum it up I'm guessing you think prometheus is fantasy and I'm thinking its sci fi I'm really struggling to find were you got that idea from lol!

@Major Noob

LOL... True True.... give me a Burger King any day of the week!

As far as the OT that i have not yet touched upon and that is Cameron said Prometheus never added up, well in some parts.... HE IS CORRECT!

Only when you watch the movie a number of times it makes some sense, its only when you look at things in detail, such as Mural and Frescos and by that i mean the online images as we never got good enough view of them in the movie.

Its only when we see the deleted scenes, that they cast some light on the puzzles...

And its only when we see and cross reference things from the drafts, and tie them in with Alien and also Star Beast that some more logical clues are made.

Even then the movie was too vague and trying to be to clever and thus some parts was confusing, some parts never added up and thats because of how the movie was cut and edited more than anything.

When we read the Drafts they go from A-Z.... if we saw the full movie A-Z as it was first intended as far as shooting of scenes, which includes scenes we never even saw on deleted scenes list.... these include the Alternative shot of Weyland in the Hanger and Shaw reverse over Fifield Mutant, and the Engineer leaving his chair after the crash and then running across LV 223 to get to the lifeboat, and the scene of him reading a Book in the Life Boat.

Has these been added and the movie ran from A-Z then it would have made more sense...

@Something Real

As i pointed out we saw from Alien more of a Fly mentality but where as a Fly just needs to mate, and then find meat to lay Eggs, the Xeno needs to find a host to then mutate to procreate.. but basically by Fly i meant its purpose was simply to procreate itself for no other purpose well we never got clues to why...

Aliens tried to show us why, and that they have a hive/nest mentality like Ants/Bees.

What i mean and as you say, we dont know the purpose of the Xeno, we have been given clues.

In Alien they was a Cargo of Eggs, these got comprimised and so the Space Jockey set a warning we did not know the purpose, and why the Space Jockey had them but from what the Company Weyland-Yutani wanted it was shown they wanted it as a Weapon and so maybe thats what they was.

Ridley did off screen then confirm that yes the Xeno was a Bio Weapon of sorts.

Prometheus goes to show us the Engineers indeed use the Jugernaught/Derelict as Bio Weapon War Ships, and so the Xeno or something connected to it is used as a Weapon.

But then Promethues seems to show us and hint that there is maybe more to it, or more to the origins and connection with Engineers than maybe just a Bio Weapon.  We do see a Bio Weapon created but it seems a Bio Weapon created from something... or to create something..

so there is more of a Agenda than purely what a normal weapon has i.e a Nuke, or Nerve Gas etc etc.

This Agenda and purpose i hope we do get to find out why?

This is definitely where we differ. I do see Prometheus as more whimsical, for want of a better term. Yes a lot of substance was inserted to ground it in the rest of the Alien universe, but not necessarily reality. I think that was the big disappointment for many, it wasn't an extension of the gritty motifs on view in Alien.

Aliens marched to the beat of logic, for sure, and it worked for that film. But if you take in the saga as a whole, each film had its own artistic mandate, and to me Ridley only ran with that. Here's Cameron on logic:

Lofficier: Okay, but when you were writing the script, were you aware at any time that you were taking chances with the credibility of the story by coming up with something that’s a little bit too hard to swallow, or did you just trust the director to pull the fat out of the fire? For example, there is the ending with the Queen coming out of the landing gear, or the scene when the crew barricade themselves in and later the Aliens just walk through the ceiling – surely, they should have thought of that?

Cameron: Being a visual person, I work backwards from the imagery that I like. The logic of a scene, I believe, is secondary to the enjoyment of it. You have to assume that Ripley was dumb enough not to check the sub-ceiling, or you have to assume that she was so thorough that she though she had accounted for everything, and there was something that she had missed or didn’t know, or wasn’t in the blueprint.

Yes, as a writer, you wrestle with all these things. It’s not as much a question of whether it’s illogical, it’s a question of whether you need to put in so much expository material to explain the point. If you over-explain, you look like you’re talking to the audience, which is not good. You’re telegraphing. You’re no longer have the surprise.

For example, when the Queen holds on to the landing gear, and stows away inside the ship for the final sequence, do we show that? Do we show how she did it? No, because then you’d lose the surprise factor.

All great points and perhaps the only message which would seem logical is that Fantasy or SciFi dieectors should perhaps not comment of the Logic of other directer's films.....

in the old days you saw a movie at the theatre. If you wanted to see it again you had to pay... There were no VHS, Beta Max, Discs or Downloads. It was very hard to study a film. You could'nt watch frame by frame in slow mo or still... This made it very hard to pic continuity or story plot holes and added to the mystery of the film as a hole. If, after seeing Alien for the first time you were asked to describe what the Alien looked like, I doubt anyone would be able to describe the creature in any detail. These days its easy. We know every cm of this enigma and this lessons the mystery...

djamelameziane published this thread to rub off on the fans of the movie that the opinion of the haters was validated in a definitive way because another film director said something derogatory about it.

It is a thread conceived in bad faith, without the intention of exchanging opinions, of creating a dialogue with the members of this board. Rather, it was created in a "TOLDJA!" sort of way.

What djamelameziane doesn't seem to realize is that he failed miserably in his intended preaching because he based his provocation (some could say a barely disguised attack) on two glaring logical fallacies. They are:

>>> Argumentum ab auctoritate (appeal to authority): You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true, and

>>> Argumentum ad populum (appeal to widespread belief, bandwagon argument, appeal to the majority, appeal to the people) – where a proposition is claimed to be true or good solely because many people believe it to be so.

Following your (lack of) logic, Titanic is an awful film because legendary filmmaker Robert Altman said so. Oh, and Blade Runner actually sucks because most people actively disliked in during its original release.

See how your rationale it doesn't add up?

Next time, please be more considerate to diverging opinions when you post on a discussion forum dedicated to the film you want to mock. Or at least try and offer some valid points to make instead of baseless remarks that can't be taken seriously by anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

Who is James Cameron? :-)

@Cremildo

I think its all just oppinion and no two people share the same with every matter, life would be boring otherwise..

Yeah who ever was bashing Cameron badly well thats there oppinion but while some can dislike his stuff in general you cant argue that his movies generally do great, even if not everyones cup of tea.

As you pointed out Titanic does not have to be a bad movie because some acliamed film maker said so... its each to there own.

Titanic did fantastic, its a movie that is great to many... to me well i never liked it as its not my kind of cup of tea, Avatar to a degree also.

Harry Potter... cant stand it, its a bit silly and well not my thing, dont mean i am correct as look at the money its made, most people would find it fantastic.

Some dont like the Lord of the Rings movies for example, while i thought they was great.

No two people have the same views, but while some may think some peoples work is poor, if we are to go by the general public then thats like broader audience, then while some may think Avatar was well not very good.... well most who have seen it would beg to differ else the movie would not have gone on to do so well.

Denial is a strange thing and yes even if Ridley Scott ran up to you Crem with Lindelof on his back and a megaphone saying "IT DIDNT ADD UP LOGICALLY" im sure you would still be saying similar things.

You post lacks so much logic its not even worth explaining it to you as you would only deny anything I say added up. I think it would be best to post a video of you instead in your honour :D :

Ps you remind me of an old member called allinnumberclad your not the same guy? He was pompous and archaic in his thoughts too kind of like a calculator trying to teach a MacBook pro ;p

DJ whether or not it adds up is in the mind of the viewer. Clearly for you, and for many, it didn't add up, and that's just fine. Speaking only for myself, it added up enough, IF you accept its about a bunch of arrogant, fallible humans in way over their heads and with various agendas that will cost them dearly.

My view has always been that this is the core theme in all the Alien movies, acquisition of power or knowledge and the potential consequences, which become ever more dire with the level of power being sought. Even the Engineers display this behavior, paying prices we can hardly imagine for their folly. So we got caricatures of that in the crew, and their ignorance and in some cases diabolical megalomania sent them all to their grave, with the exception of a few.

And of course the AI survives and so does one human, and why does she survive? Was it luck or something more divine? How does that add up in her mind? One can argue it was the AI that finally saved her bacon. So how does all this look to her now?

See, I'm fascinated by all this, and the format in which it was presented, which is why Im thrilled RS is set to direct the next installment. I'm hoping for more of the same.

I guess depends by what does not add up, this movie is very vague and so its soooooo ambigious that means no two people may arrive at the some conclusion, for some there was enough clues for them to interpret enough to make some sense and for other not enough for them to make sense of the movie.

There are a lot of ideas going on in this movie and hardly any are explained in a spoon fed way.

If by not adding up its a case of some parts made little sense, then i can agree, but for me the only major not adding up parts are the cut of the movie we got.... and also how some things contradict what we are shown or attempted to be Shown....

Anyway yes I suppose if your watching it with a pinch of salt maybe not seriously letting things go good on you. You can enjoy but you would be ignoring Ridley saying it's sci fi with some horror I guess you could add. Ignoring it being realistic even after alien was ultra realistic and did it almost perfectly. You could ignore the fact Ridley films have been going down hill for a long time. James Cameron.. film critics ...millions of people saying it didn't add up. And not just at a logical level within the film but the film making itself! Etc.etc. Unfortunately I can't it's true and yes I do watch other films like you letting it go etc. a film like say iron man...you know it's tongue in cheek a bit of fun etc. . Prometheus was clearly a serious film trying to be realistic sci fi . And got totally muddled up in the making to many cooks possibly not too mention the viral stuff following suit being all over the place...messed up and badly organized...yet another clue to what happened! Anyway yes there are tea leaf readers that could enjoy anything and that's up to them of course but I prefer to watch with my eyes open :p .And yes I fully understand what it was trying to do and all of the clues it just didn't do it well...looked stunning and was an amazing idea in the first place and yes I'm hoping part 2 blows me away...I'm hoping mind control to explain why everyone was more stupid than is actually possible in real life! Wow did I just write all that I must be bored!

I'm glad you brought up Iron Man because not too far into Prometheus I got a cartoony sort of super- vibe, like a Heavy Metal cartoon come to life. Maybe that's why I'm so forgiving of it, I was really happy with the aesthetic. 

Yes, Alien was realistic, and I did foresee a return to that, but this new attitude grabbed me instantly. I actually don't generally care for super hero movies, but this was that bombastic feel made my way. 

Yes most super hero films are at best average maybe Spider-Man 2 and the hulk by ang Lee I quiet like. Avengers being a prime example of what scares me about the film industry today...all the money being in family's and maybe teenagers meaning the studios press for a wide audience making films wishy washy and bland and I feel in prometheus's case muddled. A mix of producers pulling it in one direction writers in other directions then a director not being able to keep it all together possibly through old age or being an island as such due to his god like film making status! He it's still my favorite director over all just been disappointed as of late... 

There's definitely a feel from Prometheus that was almost pg13. And, that too many hands were in the pot, so to speak, and some great ideas got diluted for the sake of earnings, a good example being the running time apparently being drastically cut. I'm just really happy it was made, it still stands head and shoulders above movies like The Avengers.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry you were disappointed with it. 

Yes that article is real, and he is allowed his opinion just like everyone else. He is a very good director, though I really didn't like 'Avatar' at all. And no I did not enjoy Prometheus much either, so this isn't me taking sides. I REALLY wish people would not keep fighting over Prometheus still after all this time...

Side note; Pretty sure Ridley made Prometheus exactly as he wanted it, no idea why people keep saying otherwise. 

I am not sure what some mean by Alien was realistic and Prometheus was not?

What areas?

The only areas that are a bit unrealistic are maybe how some of the crew acted, some of them was a bit cheesy too like Ravel and Chance and how they did not seem to have the fear of gid in them regarding that they was going to die.... but i guess you could say that they knew there was no choice. We get this in lots of movies, the Hero Aspect, i mean Ripley did the same thing also in Alien 3 by Sacrifice herself as she knew she was going to die anyway.

Yes some of the crew like Milburn and Fifield acted a bit odd, but they was plot devices and thus canon fodder... its rare to get a well written and acted cast for a Sci Fi Horror and you fail more than suceed because in these movies people are meant to die, and so at times they have to do silly stuff in order to jepodise themselves.

Aliens cast and way they was portrayed was flawless, so was the 1982 The Things,  they way Prometheus Cast was presented and The Thing 2011 the audience was never drawn to care or fear for them.

If by realistic its meant in how things dont add up with regards to the plot then yes somethings did not, some areas contridicted,  we was trying to be shown that this substance performs a certain way at the start of movie, and then in the movie latter it seems to act differently.  Its supposed to affected the Engineers i.e dead ones, but we also see the Cryo Sleep Pods with 3 dead chest bustered Engineers. Then we have to try make sense of the worm thing in Holloways eyes.

i could go on but not enough thought was put into the properties and effects of the Goo, it was never coherent.... Spaights draft and how the Nano Scarabs worked was coherent and if we look at this and apply it to the Goo as same thing just replace Goo with Bugs and then some parts make more sense.

I dont think we can start to use Alien to compare Prometheus.... lets just throw Alien in the bin and it never happened period... then we can assess many Sci Fi movies on their own merits and they are not as bad.... if we comepare to Alien then we are bound to find faults..

ALIEN was Unique, and near flawless movie and you will be hard pushed to find such a Original well filmed and written plot. We are trying to compare movies with near perfection.

No I do agree allot of it went ridleys way Svanya but there were particular times were Ridley said through a forced smile that the studios pay the bills in reference to why he can’t get what he wants such as budget...rating of the movie (budget brought down rating down as well to get more audience) . Possibly the studio bought Lindelof in and many other things like that you never really get to hear exactly what happens behind the scenes except small bits of info here and there. It just seemed like something was happening after all we see it in every film anyway these days more than it used to be.

And I see forums for heated debate sometimes it’s what they are for…people may seem like they never change their point of view and it’s all pointless but what they type and what they think are two different things :P ! I know I rib people hard sometimes but it’s part of the fun and I love the back n forth of it all with Prometheus and with more parts coming it won’t die just yet :D .

And dave : “I am not sure what some mean by Alien was realistic and Prometheus was not?

What areas?”

Too much to go into but I would say not a ‘bit’ unrealistic but ‘massively’ . It was obvious realism was sacrificed for dramatic appeal or at least what ridley and other thought was more fun to watch. After all even Spiaghts said on the dvd logic dictates you keep your helmet on directors want to take them off and the whole helmet taking off scene was changed from him slipping and breaking the helmet to him just taking it off – wow if ever a scene made me want to laugh out loud and then cry when they all do it as well :OO ! Yes if that sort of thing happened a few times maybe it would have been forgiven but there were hundreds and not just little things…but in your face things – that would never happen type shit!

“The only areas that are a bit unrealistic are maybe how some of the crew acted, some of them was a bit cheesy too like Ravel and Chance and how they did not seem to have the fear of gid in them regarding that they was going to die.... but i guess you could say that they knew there was no choice. We get this in lots of movies, the Hero Aspect, i mean Ripley did the same thing also in Alien 3 by Sacrifice herself as she knew she was going to die anyway.” Maybe you see it that way but I saw it as – cut that scene out all together – totally did not believe them – felt like I was watching a film and so was not realistic at all. Didn’t care if they died or not as they had no character built into them. And yer cheesy as hell  -yuck!

“Yes some of the crew like Milburn and Fifield acted a bit odd” again not odd just plain would not happen Fifield couldn’t find his way back even tough he had clear communication with the ship and a 3d map – jesus look at google maps today hows it going to be in the future! Then when fifields dead blind and mangled he turns up outside the front door…erm!

Yes that’s probably the worst parts when they clearly sacrificed the realism for other reasons mostly ridleys want of a certain thing like the rolling ship scene and helmets off etc….others were poor scientific judgements but some of these I guess we will have to really wait till the other parts to fully argue them out. Yes plot mistakes as well I mean plot mistakes can be anything so yes just plain mistakes I guess you call them?! Just far too much to go into its exhausting! Alien only for nano seconds made me think oh im watching a film – as in drawing me out of the fantasy of believing it could happen. And I have spoken to countless others that feel the same…And yes too much talk drag up again we have done it all before I know but alien is kind of the best thing to compare with I reckon! And dont forget ridley is 74 and juggling multiple complex projects no wonder things are getting muddled!

And no I don’t hate Prometheus just was so disappointed it could have been so much better with just a few tweaks to shift it into that amazing real im there feeling alien gave us! It was an amazing visual feast and amazing idea before it was made. And of course there still could be a reason for it all like mind control from a god like being but that’s remains to be seen…

Oh yes i see what you mean, your on about how some of the crew make silly mistakes that you would not them to be doing, some i dont think was bad...  Milburn was excited and maybe as Vickers hand picked some of the crew she made sure she got some of them who was not the best at their job because she wanted the mission to fail.  Thats my impression.

But others yes silly, i could actually buy Holloway taking off his Helmet it fits in with the Character we was given, but then for the rest of the crew to take them off just because Holloway could breath is a bit silly... you would expect at least Ford or David to warn them that we do not know if their are any airborne contaminates and its not wise to remove the Helmets.

They could gone round this by having Ford and David do some scans and say results came back clear and then we see Fifield who is bit crazy takes his off, then Milburn and then Holloway have to plead with Shaw...  that would have at least made more sense.

The bigger one was yes Fifield getting lost, again they should have added a scene where he got scared as he bumped into another Engineer body, or the walk to another room with another abis and he falls and loses his compunicator down the hole.... then radios in to say his Map thingy (future Sat Nav) is lost or broken....

This would made it more plausble.

So yes its tiny little things that if given more thought and added as above that would have helped to explain and give more logical reason to some silly mistakes... But i guess Ridley has to take than can as he is supposed to be in charge of all the fine details.

Anyway i got be off but tomorrow i will try and pick some bad parts of the movie to discus too.

Spaights himself says in the documentary that Fox wanted a more seasoned writer and hired Lindelof.

Yer that helmet scene was a stinker. I mean they even did a scan but didn't talk about bacteria microbes or that fact that they them selves would contaminate the place and basically feck up any future scientific studies of the place. Then if they knew there was no danger how then do you explain that they had no idea there was the black goo or the green sparkly goo on the panel our even an alive engineer or worms etc etc. So basically they had scanned that room and not that well and not around the corner so anything could of been there. The place probably would of had security if it was of any importance to keep other races or engineers out but I know that depends on part 2 and the bigger picture. On and on it just doesn't add up...I really hope they get advisers in for part 2...scientists geologists etc what ever is needed just get people who know about the shit to tell you if it makes sense! Oh Yer and someone to make all that really well made viral stuff to work correctly and together with the film...