Important reading: Everything that explains \'Alien\' and it\'s connection to \'Prometheus\'.

Rrrright!?

Oh dear.

From:

http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/gods-monsters/

Start quote

The Engineer was also originally planned to match the gargantuan height of the original Space Jockey. Jon Spaihts’ script takes a close look at one Engineer corpse, revealing that: “If he were standing he would be fifteen feet tall. He is roughly human in shape. Barrel-chested. Withered to the bone. there are bulky protrusions fused with his flesh: hard to say whether they are equipment or parts of his body. His head, lolling to one side, is severed from his body.” The Engineer was later shortened to make him practical to shoot on film, and for an actor to portray convincingly.

End quote

It seems the engineers were just shortened for practical reasons from 12 - 15 feet to 8 - 9 feet !

That's that .....

From :

http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/ridley-scotts-alien-ii-or-what-he-wanted-to-happen/

“It certainly should explain what the Alien is and where it comes from,” he told Omni’s Screen Flights/Screen Fantasies in 1984. “That will be tough because it will require dealing with other planets, worlds, civilisations. Because obviously the Alien did come from some sort of civilisation. The Alien was presented, really, as one of the last survivors of Mars – a planet named after the god of war. The Alien may be one of the last descendants of some long-lost self-destructed group of beings.”
Ridley also explained to Cinefantastique that “’in many respects it’ll be more interesting [than the first movie], from a pure science-fiction stand point. We’d get into speculative areas, deal with two civilisations.”

@Odu; I love this thread bud! You've done a great job of putting it all together! Please keep it up!!!

Necronom4

Thanks

I appreciate it hope this thread sparks interest in a new generation of Alien Universe fans.

The The Strange Shape Website is a good place to start. There is just so many small details that will be lost in the passage of time.

I hope this thread sparks interest in many younger people who when realising the connection between Alien and Prometheus will now immerse themselves in the Alien universe.

But strange shapes is doing a great job of that.

It is simply superb.

Xeno alpha 07 and the owner seems to be friends.

It would be interesting to have a thread where these 2 could be interviewed as in how they got to
start the websites etc like the interview Unleashthefanboy did with Chris.

Thanks

alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/path-to-prometheus/

Form this article at strange shapes:

Start quote

Even series producer Walter Hill referred toAlien 3as “another complete fucking mess,” and went on to explain, “The studio wanted to crank out another one … David [Giler] and I were a bit sick of it, and wanted to end the whole thing … Fifteen years later, and we’re still in hotel rooms rewritingAlien …We had nothing to do [withAlien Resurrection], didn’t even think it was a good idea for starters, we thought we had ended the series … Personally, I think it’s a lousy movie.”

Ridley Scott also found the idea of Aliens on Earth to be less enticing than exploring the origin of the creatures: “Earth would be interesting, and there is talk about it … I say we should go back to where the Alien creatures were first found and explain how they were created. No one has ever explained why. I always figured that a battleship carrying bio-mechanical organisms that could be weapons was sent into space with some Space Jockey who didn’t last long.” He elaborated on his vision ofAlien 5further: “I had an idea for a fifth installment in the series. It would be all about the Aliens themselves: what their world and civilization are like. What made them tick. We always thought of that derelict spacecraft, where they found all the eggs in the first one, as a sort of aircraft carrier or bomber. They would drop the eggs on the planets they wanted to conquer, then come back a few years later after the landscape had been ‘cleared,’ so to speak.”
Ridley’s idea about exploring the culture which originated the Aliens was a persistent one.Alien‘s associate producer, and friend to Scott, Ivor Powell, claimed to be fascinated by the same theme: “I would have gone before [Alien], that’s what I find interesting. I want to know who that Space Jockey is. What are the Aliens doing in the silo? Are they armaments, are they shipping them somewhere?” Journalist Paul Sammon, author ofFuture Noir: The Making of Blade Runner, expressed interest in the same idea, pointing to the untapped lore lying behind the original film: “Despite the fact that there have been four films in the saga so far, there are still all these unanswered questions that the original brought up. Like, what’s the deal with LV-426? Where did the original Alien race come from? Who are they, really? What are they? Who was the Space Jockey? Why did it have all those eggs on a crashed ship? I mean, the firstAlienhinted at a whole backstory that hasn’t been explored in the saga yet.”
Despite the intense curiosity in such themes and storylines, Fox was still touting Joss Whedon as the pen behind their planned Alien 5.

End quote

So both as a sequel or a prequel Ridley makes it very clear what he would have done.

He would have gone into origin of the Xeno as well as the civilisations that created them and that the sj 's were conquering other planets with the Xenos as bio weapons.

So the engineers are probably closely tied to the creation of this Xeno creature. Spaihts draft reflects this as the facehuggers are weaponised Octopoid encephelapod creatures discovered in the caves of LV 426.

This ties into what Ridley wanted as I have speculated. I think the alien5 or alien prequel that Ridley wanted was written.

It was the Alien Engineers draft by Jon Spaihts.

But I understand why fox did what they did.

I am just tired of Ridley being blamed as the sole proprietor of the Prometheus we got.

No offence.

Just wanted to make the point.

And then to my surprise even Giler and Hill wasn't eager for a third movie.

Posted 20 August 2015

This is a screenshot from Alien. this clearly shows that Weyland Yutani knew that there was a lifeform on LV 426 long before the Nostromo crew left Thedus.

How did Weyland Yutani know this ??

My compliments to Valaquen:

http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/jon-spaihts-alien-prequel/

This artcle is fantastic

I am left with the impression that when you ask Jon Spaihts to write an alien prequel thats exactly what he did.

So you have lv 426 with an undergroud atmosphere processor caves that have octopoid facehuggers and 8 stasis fields full of eggs each slighly different form the other.

Is Jon Spaihts suggesting that the stasis fields is in fact part of the complex and not of the ship ??

Is jon spaihts trying to explain the size of the stasis fields being to large to fit inside the derelict ??

So is he suggesting then that the stasis fields is infact a subterenean cavern ??

So then he would be saying that the colony on lv 426 was in fact just a way to hide the technology that was there like they do in the series "In Plain Sight" aka Federal Witness Protection program.

Plausable deniability ?? Was that the true purpose of the Nostromo and  crew.

They use tecnology derived from the engineers atmosphere processor technology and thereby hide the caverns that are now probably sealed and locked and will lead someone to the caverns below the derelict. They hide it by simply puttting people there so that other companies perhaps tracking in that area wouldn't be abe to identify the jugg and the underground structures.

Now that could mean that the Weland Yutani has already obtained a xeno to get back to earth in the time they established the colony there ??

This could explain why they sent a Marine team and leader with very little experience and who couldn't handle pressure. They simply wanted the mission to fail and got rid of Ripley and all the people there.

They already got a xeno decades before that and simply wanted pausible deniability.

Then who is to say that the egg that found its way into the EEV wasnt done by Weyland Yutani ?? That perhaps a second Bishop unbeknownst to everyone was hiding on the ship and that he was responsible for getting the egg without anyone 's knowledge.

That Carter J Burke was actually just being played by Weyland Yutani as he was nowhere near the core of the people who runs the show and that he actually played nicely into their hands.

And that when Bishop?Charles Weyland arrived on the Fiorina 161 to prevent Ripley from committing suicide he was actually just there to prevent anyone alse from getting their hands on it and making sure that Ripley actually died ?

Is this what Jon Spaihts had in mind ?? (as to somehow a preamble to make ecerything fit ??)

That the Nostromo landed on lv 426 seven years later because the company had already been there and once again wanted plausible deniability for what happened on the Nostromo so that could have an excuse for developing the technology that would come from the xeno and everything that was discovered there.

That this was the true purpose of the Nostromo redirection and Ash ??

So all coroborating evidence would point to a purely co incedental discovery and that all the mess on LV 426 was cleared in those few years ?? Like the bodies of Vickers body guards have been removed ??

Is this why they wanted a ship with very little of the technology of the time to do the  "research" so that there is no tech to kill the xeno ??

I wonder .......

Is this perhaps why the blood and tissue samples were just frozen (since Weyland Yutani wanted things to quiet down after the events of Aliens in 2179) and after Walmart bought Weyland Yutani they were re researched and cloned since enough time passed and they could move their research into  deep space ???? 

Valaquen says the following:

Personally, I disagree – humanity stumbling upon the unknown and unrelatable was the source of much ofAlien’s power. Whilst Grecian-esque creator gods are a fascinating idea, I never felt that they necessarily had to be the biomechanic Space Jockey race. Fans were fascinated with the ‘abstraction’ for three decades. More than that – it awed, intrigued, and scared them. An irreversible trade-off was made here with the combination of the two races.

I totaly agree with this statement.

I have enormous respect for Jon Spaihts and his draft but I feel too that we should have been a distinct species from those who created the xeno and that our creators were perhaps also the ones that created the engineers but a very long time ago.

Just my opinion.

I think Jon tried his best to make everything fit and be canon and it seems that no one noticed the intent.

Thank you !!!

here's big dave's encompassing theory .

i like it.

we need more of them.

This thread created by me explores the possibility that Prometheus was a rip off avp.....

Please read the thread before you comment - it's not meant to be negative.

possibly p1 could be considered a plot device whose main purpose was to show what the sj was - a bald humanoid with a cthulian type creature suit - and that the goo and aliens may have biological dna similarities.  just to get shaw and david alone on an alien vessel to go to the engineers home world.

point ? 

perhaps p1 is only part of an unfinished movie . 

all that idiotic behaviour cant be always explained which only leaves it deliberately left to .....

but certainly p2 feels like a 2 nd episode that doesnt want to come.....

this thread is where this post comes from .

it was written by shambs

I agree BigDave! The crossover should be closer to what were the comics and video games (In fact, I'd like to see a reboot of AVP in the future :p).

And Yeah, There is much controversy and difference of opinion in this franchise, and there is no real consensus of what is canon and what is not. So just for fun, these are the types of fans in my opinion:

Purists: Only Alien is canon. Basically they don't give a shit for the rest of the franchise. Also they love Giger.

Postmodern Purists: Prometheus and Alien are canon (probably because both were made ​​by Ridley Scott/Giger). They hate Cameron.

Hardcore Fans: They are legion, and they accept the first three films of the franchise, but hate Alien R, Both AVP films and Prometheus. They love Hicks.

Selective Purist: For those who only accept Alien and Alien 3. They don´t care who made ​​the film, what matters most is that the work maintains its original essence.They hate the Queen.

Fans with Open Mind: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien R and Prometheus are canon. They love Ripley.

Fans with very very open mind: Everything is canon, EU included.  They love the Predalien.

interesting summation by shambs

now this thread was created 20 august 2013 a little over a year ago with the purpose of establishing what was to be read / known if i was to understand what lies behind the creation of alien and in doing so (if assuming p1 and alien is in the same universe) establishing a body of or reference that might help understand how prometheus relates to alien.

has this succeeded in doing that ?

you tell me.

so if any person thinks that there is a defacto "you have to know this or that " to be considered "knowledgable" as with regards to the alien universe - they definitely havent shared to the extent i would have expected them to.

i find that strange - no offense.

well i guess velaquen and xeno alpha 07 might have something to say about that. 

LOL

on various posts though

svanya

(who basically got me thinking after indicating that the prometheus was to a large extent the starbeast script - this really got me going to create this thread - she also has indicated many other things not related which really never was credited for)

big dave 

necronom4

have contributed

very much appreciated

now at least i have a starting place to go and read and study .

i hope this thread might help others as well

thanks to all for making this site what it is

Thank You...

Yes there are some connections to be made but then there is a lot we simply cant be sure about...  There has to be some connection between the Engineers Bio-Tech, inc ships and Space Jockey Suits and the Xeno or what ever the Xeno originates from..

Then maybe there is a connection between the Engineers and the Goo (Sacrifcial) that ties to the Xeno/Bio Tech.... but thats something that does not have to be the case...

Because the Sacrificial Scene looks to be many millions of years ago and maybe a Billion as far as the movie.... (Spaights draft it shows the Scene would been about 2-3M years ago), but as far as the movie and Lindeloffs draft we do not see any Bio-Tech and we only see the Goo in Sacrificial Form that my theory from what i have gathered is a Bio Agent that purely is used to break down DNA so into a substance that can then pass on that DNA and at same time Evolve what ever lifeform it comes into contact with.

The whole Xeno connection and Bio Tech could be something they found latter, and i suspect the Engineers may have borrowed their Bio-Tech from experiments on some kind of Bio-Mechanical Organism they had came across but thats open to debate.

Carrying on from my posts, it appears that Fox U-turn on the Goo is that it is one and all the same and that depending on the situation and methods of how it contacts a Organism, it has different effects....

Ingestion in Large does, break down a Organisms DNA into a matter that then reforms and starts to create life that carries the DNA of the Organism who consumed it.

Small Dosages it mutates some cells that is able to hybrid some cells to take on genetic traits not to dissimilar to the Xenos. While the Organism who ingested the small dosage seems to go through a state of Biological Break down, Molecule at a time, like the Larger dosage just taking longer.

Inhaling the Mutagen results in mutation of cells leading to some kind of evolution and also aggression. Off course we see Fifield did not inhale it or the Worms, they actually had contact with their skin.

Thus Fox could be trying to show that the Mutagen contacts the skin, then it causes the Genetic Material of the Organism to mutate and Evolve and somehow takes on Xeno Traits.

But using this to look at all clues in the franchise and make links you will just hit brick wall a lot...

But Fox are going further in that this Goo is actually what DNA is formed from and is in essence the Building Blocks of all life... It be interesting to see how they are going to push this aspect in future movies, but the Comic book will show us in some part what the Goo actually is and does.

Going back to maybe the intention of this thread...

I have seen some connection that indeed latter movies borrow or base off some unused parts of earlier movies drafts.
Could these earlier drafts hold clues?

Alien was based of Star Beast, and in essence if we look at the Alien DC, we see that a lot of Alien is based off Star Beast apart from the description of what the Organism looks like.

In Star Beast the Face Huger did not look the same, it never came from a Egg and it did not look the same in its stages of growth, but it had the same stages.

A Vessel holding the Parasite that implants Embryo into a Host, A Chest Buster Stage, and a Adult Stage, then some how it then tries to Mutate and Change a Captured Victim to become more Vessels.

In Alien the Vessels (Eggs) are part of Cargo Hold of the crashed Derelict Craft and its Pilot a Giant Humanoid yet Alien looking Skeletal remains is dead in the Pilot Chair.

In Star Beast and indeed plans for Alien was that the Ship was landed and not crashed, and that the Vessels were stored and came from a Temple found on the Planet/Moons surface. They was being taken to the Ship when the crew got infected with the Organism within the Vessels.

Its interesting to point out that in Star Beast we see many elements used in Prometheus..

1)     A Temple.... This temple has a Sacrificial Altar Room where some Organism was Sacrificed in order to allow the Organism in the Vessels to carry out its Life Cycle. On the walls was Mural and Frescos that depicted the entire Organisms Life Cycle. And in the room are many leathery Urns that are the Vessels for the Organism in Star Beast. And also this Chamber had a breathable environment and Oxygen.

Prometheus has a Temple that also has a Altar and that also has Urns on in Prometheus they are not Leathery but more Ceramic and contain the Black Goo Mutagen. And this temple had a breathable environment too.

2)     In Star Beast they find a Dead Giant Being that had become victim to the Organism within the Vessels (Urns) they take the Skull of it back to the Ship.

In Prometheus the crew do the same with one of the Engineers heads and find the Engineer had became infected with what ever was in the Urns.

3)     We see that the Star Beast Mural shows us a Organism that is similar to Shaws Baby Trilobite grown up that attacks the Last Engineer... The depiction and description of the Organism that is held within the Urns in Star Beast looks a lot like Shaws Baby Trilobite when it is first pulled out of Shaw.

The above are 3 elements in Star Beast that some how make it into Prometheus that did not directly make it to Alien as far as the Star Beast Draft and early Alien one had described them. i.e Skeletal Alien life form remains, the Urns, a Temple containing the Urns and Mural showing what could happen to anyone infected by the contents of the Urns.

Yes many other stuff from Star Beast made it to Alien, such as how the Chamber that held the Leathery Urns temperature is like the Tropics, which is what Kane Described the Egg Chamber as feeling.

So could Star Beast Answer some of the Questions of Prometheus.... maybe maybe..

How.. well if Prometheus borrowed so many unused parts from Star Beast what other parts from Star Beast did we see in Prometheus or that could show us something about Prometheus...

Here is two to start us off..

1)     Star Beast seems to show us the Giant Race who was the crew of the Derelict Alien craft that set of a SOS, was shown to be a Warning and not a SOS, this fits in with Alien, but the Prometheus part is this.... Star Beast Showed this Giant Race that died at the hands of the Organism found within the Temple, maybe did not create this Organism and simply came across and wished to study it, but that proved to be a mistake.

Could this mean Prometheus part 2 could show us indeed the Engineers did not create the Xeno, well the Origins of it and that it was something they found that they then conducted experiments on to create other stuff?

2)     This Giant Race left a Warning about the place they had found and they had marked out a Triangle Symbol on the Control Panel of their ship, a Triangle that proved to be a depiction of the Temple, and thus maybe a Warning... see this Temple... avoid.

Could this be interpreted as the Star Maps may indeed also be a Warning from some of the Engineers, like do not come to this place?

But then before the Engineers wanted us dead we had the older findings by Shaw and Holloway including the 35’00 year old Star Map...

Could LV 223 had been a Watch Post, that the Engineers watched over us from? Could it had been Tera-Formed so that we can one day arrive there to find our creators? Or was it a place Tera-Formed so that we was abducted over time to be taken there for experiments?

So maybe it was first a invite, but then a War Broke out and a Rebel Faction then changed LV 223 as a place of death and so some Engineers came down to Warn us... thus early Pictograms was a Invitation or simply a way that this Engineers said we are from here?

Then after a War, some stopped the potential destruction of us and then Warned us by showing Same Star Map.. do not come here... or was all along a faction of Engineers coming and Warning us not to come to this place from the Start....

Maybe, as well in Star Beast we are shown these Giant Beings set off a Warning about the place contained something Hostile, that would threaten Survival and do not come down. And they then marked out on the Console before it died a depiction of the Temple. As if to say.. Avoid this Temple.

But the crew of the Snark (Human Ship in Star Beast) thought the Message was a SOS, but how wrong they was... just as in Alien...

So maybe just in Prometheus the Star Maps are not a Invitation but a Warning?

In this thread I show a youtube video giving some pretty decent answers on all the ambiguity issues

I dont agree with it 100 percent but it is still very good and as they indicate it might make a good case for Prometheus being a very good sci fi movie.