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Why exactly was David watching Shaw's dream? Was there some motive? Or was it be

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Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphJanuary 22, 2013
My question is simple, but some background is required first. To introduce the topic I'll reword it again quickly to show what I'm getting at. What was the true motive behind David watching Shaw's dream? Was it simply something the filmmakers thought was "cool"/"creepy" of David to do with the dream helmet? Or is there much more to the purpose behind this and the dream helmet technology itself?? We know David was communicating with Weyland in cryo and the dream helmet serves a purpose for that. That's it's main purpose it seems--using it to communicate with the subconscious while someone is in cryo. Let me be clear I believe all of Prometheus actually happened in the real world, but that Shaw could very likely have been influenced subconsciously. Every piece of technology has its purpose, which contributes to the form it takes. Form is closely related to functionality. So once a basic blueprint that works is discovered, it can be repeated and applied in a more widespread way. With slight alterations. In archaeology we can see the advancement of tools over time, but tools designed for certain things retain their basic characteristics. The same is true about a lot of technology in general, but the trend with our tech is to make things smaller and less noticeable, but to still perform the same function. Anyway what I'm talking about may relate to this in abstract ways. Once that dream helmet was created it's very unlikely they gave up the technology. But I won't go into that yet. In case you're worried again I don't believe Prometheus was all a dream in anyway, however, I believe there is a lot more to the subconscious communication with Weyland angle. More than a lot of other things. And David really could have had a purpose for watching Shaw's dreams. I mean logically would he really be doing it if he wasn't programmed to be evil, or do weird things like that? He may have even had some freewill over choosing to watch her dreams if there is no purpose behind it... So what is the purpose? Why would a machine do certain things like exercise or watch her dreams unless it has subroutines to allow some choice in what it does that pushes it towards the programming. And are there other purposes we'll see the dream helmet return for? The mind is an interesting thing. And our subconscious even affects the way we interpret things. Part of me really feels that has a lot to do with the happy birthday viral when they ask David what he sees. "Because you know sometimes words have two meanings" Paradise means many different things and brings about a few themes and concepts, not only heaven but other cultures' ideas of heaven. And even ideas about the garden of Eden. So to Shaw Paradise is what she wants it to mean. Which is closer to the idea of heaven, and she wants to climb that stairway to heaven. But this is an idea planted by her father. That she can choose what it means, and choose what she believe David may mean by "Paradise". But David is aware of this. He knows she will take certain meanings from certain things. He also learns a trick to get around Asimov's laws by learning to choose what he believes... If he can trick himself into believing he is not telling a lie, by using words that have multiple meanings, can be taken certain ways, and uses unclear or ambiguous answers to get away with what he's doing. Which may be subtly manipulating the crew and the audience even more than Weyland could have ever dreamed of. He chooses to use the word Paradise in the deleted scene because he may be leading her to draw a certain interpretation from it. And subtly manipulating the crew in many other ways based on the words he chooses... "Poor choice of words" may be the closest thing to a lie he gets away with telling. And it may be not so much about the dream helmet, but the subconscious in general.
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javablue
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How do you know it's unnecessary. Or convoluted for that matter.
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ThatSM
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Because there's much simpler explanations than 'preparing her for a mission (and apparently no one else) for contact with a spceies that we've had no contact with for millennia'.
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javablue
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What is this simpler explanation? And if Riddles says everyone was attached to the dream machines, then perhaps there are others.
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ThatSM
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I already mentioned explanations on the first page.
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javablue
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You didn't seem to mention dream implants. Which is what we are talking about now.
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ThatSM
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Why would I mention dream implants when I don't think they're using dream implants? Riddles talks about captured dreams which can be played back to the sleeper to help exercise the brain while it's in hypersleep. These dreams can be monitored by an external user who can also use the helmet to communicate with the sleeper.
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javablue
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So why did you refer me back to your explanation when there's no explanation about dream implants? So that's what Ridley said, was it? Did he say who's dreams they play back to the sleeper? I never known a movie that seems to require so much outside info to explain itself. IQs must have dropped sharply since Ridley did BR.
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ThatSM
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[quote]So why did you refer me back to your explanation when there's no explanation about dream implants? [/quote] Because, as I said, there is no need for dream implants. It's unneccesarily convoluted, remember? [quote]So that's what Ridley said, was it? Did he say who's dreams they play back to the sleeper? [/quote] Not specifically - but there's no reason to assume it's anything other than the sleepers dreams. [quote]I never known a movie that seems to require so much outside info to explain itself.[/quote] That scene doesn't need to explain itself especially. It serves a double purpose of giving us a flashback for Shaw, as well as showing us how the helmets can link someone to someone else in hypersleep - to set up the later scene with Weyland.
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javablue
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Yes, I agree with the last bit that it may have those functions but it doesn't rule out dream implants, which could explain Shaw's statements at the presentation and much, much more.
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ThatSM
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Sure, if you want to make up stuff to complicate things for no apparent reason, I guess.
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javablue
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I never to anything for no apparent reason. The reason just isn't apparent to you.
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ThatSM
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Would you care to enlighten anyone else?
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javablue
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I'd like to mate, but since I can't convince anyone that the dome structure is a dome structure and not a pyramid and it took a while to get you to admit that something automatic might be going on before a command to switch to manual, I don't like my chances of getting anything slightly complicated listened to. Maybe I'll post a few questions later on and see how they go.
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Indy John
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"..He also learns a trick to get around Asimov's laws by learning to choose what he believes... " To me this implies that David is making a conscious decision which is more of a human than robotic behaviour. More of a thinking charactoristic than circuit board /memory programming. At what point can we say that David is a thinking entity and not programable robot?
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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zzplural
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The idea of building a super-advanced robot is that it can learn, think and react to situations that are completely unforeseen to its designers. In this respect, if we regard David as being intelligent, he has, as a matter of course, a certain amount of 'free will'.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
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ThatSM
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[quote]I'd like to mate, but since I can't convince anyone that the dome structure is a dome structure and not a pyramid and it took a while to get you to admit that something automatic might be going on before a command to switch to manual, I don't like my chances of getting anything slightly complicated listened to. [/quote] 'Pyramid' is just a convenient term as used in the script, despite being technically innacurrate. And you continually being unable comprehend my posts about the landing don't equate to me to admitting anything. But whatever floats your boat... It's a "no". [quote]At what point can we say that David is a thinking entity and not programable robot?[/quote] He was probably a thinking entity all along. The proof would be in his methods to comply with Weyland's "try harder" order.
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Indy John
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We only see David using the sleep visor. Could others have used the sleep visor? And if they could when might they have tried?
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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zzplural
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[i]"Could others have used the sleep visor?"[/i] In order to answer that question, you'd need to know roughly how it works, and we can only speculate on that... It seems that video is projected into the wearer's eyes from the front visor, and the helmet has a microphone that is able to relay verbal communication to the subject. If that's all it does, I imagine that it could be used by humans. In fact, given that David is a robot, one might imagine that this is typically the case, since there are surely easier ways of interfacing a robot with a hypersleep chamber (e.g. humble WiFi). There is the possibility that the helmet interacts with the wearer's brain direcly in some way. We don't know about that, and there may be some limitation on who/what can use it if that is the case. It's possible that the crew were put to sleep sequentially, and one of the medical staff used the visor during the process. Or contingency plans were in place to account for robotic failure, where a designated human could take his place. One thing's for sure: its primary function is for it to look cool!
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
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Indy John
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Therer would not be much opportunity on board the Prometheus. My thouhgt was that maybe Vickers wanted to have a go at her Father. I don't recall she had any tech skills but seemed to be asking questions as she protected the Weyland Corp. interest in this project. Preflight boarding however is a different story. When did everybody go under so to speak? And what were the final instructions and who gave them out? A far out question, and this is crazy, you sort of wonder if during the flight that there could be some remote control instructions/information sent from Corporate that not even David had access to using an link to the pods bypassing the use of the visor.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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javablue
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@sm 'Pyramid' is just a convenient term as used in the script, despite being technically innacurrate. Thanks for the support on the dome. However, I'm not sure why it would be convenient to call a dome a pyramid. It was done for a reason - as is everything in quality movie. I was asking what happened before the switch to manual - you kept telling me what happened after ie they landed. Well, derrrrr!

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