Sexism and social ignorance in Prometheus

Java, Janek has a back story of having flown sorties for the military and as we all know, soldiers tend to use 'rough' language from time to time. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I agree with posters above, Ridley Scott has done much to advance the cause of strong women as protagonists in his movies. Haven't we heard that the protagonist of Blade Runner 2 is supposed to be a woman? And before that there is Warrant Officer Ellen Ripley or in the present movie, Dr Elisabeth Shaw. Give it some thought, those of you who would suggest the taint of sexism in Ridley Scott movies.

"try not to bugger each other." very british sort of humour lol i dont think or i hope that no-ones saying ridley scotts story promotes sexist attitudes nostromo i think they were posing the idea that holloway was meant to be considered subtly sexist and arrogant from his choice of words i personally think that is stretching it, holloway was ignorant towards david that is significant but otherwise he seemed okay to me!

also cant wait to see who gets cast as female protagonist in B2 and whether thy will be replicant or human? also maybe another ethnicity than european would be interesting!

[i]"try not to bugger each other." very british sort of humour lol[/i] Yes, I'm familiar with the bugger - bugger me, bugger off, etc - but I don't hear it used in its literal sense much nowadays. @nostro - yes, I understand that. But bugger is not really an American expression is it? Just out of curiosity. Janek also uses the expression "clicks" which is an American word for kilometer coming out of the Vietnam War, I think. I happen to think the way a character expresses himself tells us more about him/her. There's no mention of a military background in the movie but words like click point to that possibility. I don't think Ridley is at all sexist but it doesn't mean he can't have sexist characters in his movies.

Oh sorry java, I was referring to the deleted scene with Janek and Vickers after she incinerates Holloway and Janek appears at her door with rum and a story out of his past. It came with the DVD or blue ray edition.

hehe just reminded of some funny uses of 'bugger' "bugger-lugs" (lugs = ears) as a mildly cheeky term of endearment as an exclamation on say stubbing ones toe my dad oft exclaims "oh buggery-fuck!" or alternately "buggery-bollocks" :P hahaha

Bugger lugs I know. Don't use the other terms tho. Bollocks is very Brit.

nostro - I try not to take much notice of all those extras - more of a hindrance than a help, especially as Ridley has a sequel to protect. First time in my life I've ever seen deleted scenes used to explain a movie. There's lots of clues in the subtext and the various movies etc Prometheus alludes to.

This is one movie where all the deleted scenes provided extra material that helps you figure out the original movie. I know its an absurd way to make a movie but thats the movie we are stuck with. I am very glad that I did watch them or else I would still be wondering things and trying to figure out things that were made clear in the deleted scenes and alternative endings. It also gave me insight into the editing process and in some cases I could see RS's selection process.

i wouldnt say they were essential to my understanding of the movie they reinforced some ideas and although it was great to hear the engineer speak the final cut made the head ripping more sudden and more of a shock whereas the dialogue lets you see his anger build and so lessens the effect, i wouldve kept the axe fight with shaw though i dont think it diminishes him at all after all she hits him in the side with an axe and he still chases after her to presumably break her kneck

caenor, Yes after seeing those scenes I also have certain ones that I would have liked included like the Janek Vickers rum scene but like I said, while I am glad I saw those deleted scenes, at the end of the day I understand why in most cases Ridley Scott chose that edited cut. And for me it greatly helped my understanding of the film. But then so did the commentaries, the scripts, the Furious Gods documentary, so it wasn't JUST the deleted and alternate scenes that helped. That qualifies my earlier post:)

Excuse me, Theses, but why on earth shouldn't Stephen Stills still be talked about that far into the future? There are classical composers of far less substance, who operated further into the past, (than Prometheus is set into into the future), of whom we still talk about today. How do you know Crosby, Stills & Nash don't reform in the near future and become a world wide phenomenon? Or for that matter, Buffalo Springfield? And, on a more general note, isn't Holloway supposed to be disliked in the film? He's supposed to be annoying, and politically incorrect, right?

i find it kind of amusing when politically-correct types have a pop at words like mankind. Mankind refers to everyone, not just the male of the species. Check out the etymology of the word "woman" if this kind of thing bugs you. Clue: woman means "wife man".

oh interesting i had assumed it was a combo of womb and man like a man but with a womb lol silly but there you go... haha

@ nostro I'm afraid that if deleted scenes are needed to explain the film than by any standards of film-making set over the last 100 years, Prometheus is a failure. Every element in the movie is important and must all come together to give the film unity. I'm kind of amazed by the number of people who think a particular shot, frame, dialogue, etc is not important. I suppose some allowances can be made for Prometheus given it will have a sequel. And maybe times have changed - perhaps in the future there will be an Oscar for deleted scenes. My story with Prometheus is that I decided one day in October to watch a DVD so I did a quick google on best movies 2012 and found Prometheus, which I'd never heard of before that moment (I'd been hibernating in another dimension on the WWW). I have to say I had several WTF moments during the movie. For example, when Shaw mentions pyramids, my reaction was, "Pyramids? What's she talking about? What pyramids" because there are no pyramids in the movie. Imagine my amazement when I come on sites like this and everyone is referring to the domes as pyramids (and some become very defensive when questioned about that). However, while I don't think Prometheus will ever stand alongside Alien or BR, fans and others will be scouring over the film for a long time looking into Ridley's very rich subtext, his mise en scene, allusions and intertexuality, etc, where the real story is taking place. Now you're a scientist, Nostro so perhaps you'll understand this. Just about everything scientific or technical in the movie is a mistake or can be called into question. Since I have faith in Ridley (and I know that professional writers have a very high degree of general knowledge backed with good research skills and it was written that the movie had scientific advisers) I decided that the mistakes were too many to be mistakes - they were put into the movie on purpose. So that should be the starting point to understanding the movie. So I've been forming alternative theories about Prometheus.

I find your overbearing faux-feminist political correctness far more offensive than anything in this film. I would stick to Teletubbies if you want to see a film like you describe.

@javablue: [i]"Just about everything scientific or technical in the movie is a mistake or can be called into question."[/i] I've read some pretty loopy statements in my time, but this just about takes the biscuit. Utter hogwash. Whilst it is fascinating to read again of your your ongoing obsession with use of the word 'pyramid', need I remind you that there is no word currently in existence that accurately defines the structure that they found, and 'pyramid' is a perfectly reasonable choice given the strong similarities with the function of the Egyptian Pyramids.

Are you for real? A pyramid has a square base (sometimes triangular) with four triangular sides that come to a point at the top. Domes are spherical as is the structure in the film (in which it is also called a dome). Function has nothing to do with shape - besides the pyramids in Egypt were burial sites for pharaohs. No dead pharaohs in Prometheus as far as I'm aware. Do yourself a favour - ask some of your friends. As for my loopy statements, we'll just have to go over them sometimes. Let's start with one I've already mention - the missing Hittite civilization: During Holloway's spiel on archeological sites (one he has probably given may times) he names the pictograms and the civilizations where they were produced: “That’s Egyptian, Mayan, Sumerian, Babylonian, that’s Hawaiian at the end there, then Mesopotamian.” So where is the Hittite civilization? [b]The Hittite pictogram is clearly shown second from the end, just before Hawaii[/b] but Holloway instead refers to it as the Mesopotamian [civilization]. First, there is no Mesopotamian pictogram shown in his presentation (except where it is shown as the location for the Babylonian civilization). Mesopotamia is a region mostly in what is now Iraq, the Hittite civilization was located in what is now Turkey. Secondly, Mesopotamia is a not a civilization, it’s a region – the land between two rivers. We learn that in primary or junior high school. Yes, you can talk in the plural sense about Mesopotamian civilizations because a number of civilizations rose and fell in that area over 1000s of years and Charlie mentions two of them – Sumer and Babylonia. But you can’t talk about [b]the[/b] Mesopotamian civilization. This is a very basic error for a schoolboy, much less an archeologist. Let's stop there. Is that a mistake?

Yes, I am for real. Can you not get it into your head that words are appropriated for new uses all the time? It happens now, and it will happen in the future, whether you like it or not. If you are unable to conceive that the word 'pyramid' can only [i]ever[/i] be used to define a very specific shape, I have to say that you have a very limited imagination. Is a dyke a wall or a tough lesbian? In your world, the lesbian of that description does not exist. I'm not going to banter with you about Hittites etc. because that's [i]history[/i], not science. If you're going to argue that everything scientific in the movie is a mistake, at least give some examples of science. Are you generally prone to over-exaggeration, or is it just on this forum?

So you're saying that the Prometheus designers have come up with an entirely new shape which, while spherical without a hint of anything triangular, should be included under the definition of pyramid? Do you understand the words bat, shit and thick? That some characters call the structure a pyramid is a clue. We are supposed to ask why they are calling it a pyramid. Holloway is speaking of archeology which is a science. I have shown he doesn't appear to understand basic archeology which raises questions about him. But, anyhow, I knew you wouldn't answer my question - I was just wondering what elaborate dodge you'd come up with. So let's agree that you believe Prometheus is just some new age romp in outer space and I think there is much more to the movie, which we are meant to uncover. I thought that was one of the objectives of this forum.