Ultimate Plot holes/questions and answers debate thread

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Engineering

MemberOvomorphJune 14, 2012

********THIS THREAD IS A WORK IN PROGRESS******** These are truncated interpretations of forum members "plot holes" or unaswered questions along with answers and explainations from various members... 1)[u]Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/u] 2)[u]Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct?[/u] [b]He's a multi-quadrillionaire or mega-rich for that matter. Money is no object and immortality is his only desire.[/b] 3)[u]Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs?[/u] [b]In the film someone says that her beliefs are incorrect because the Engineers created humans. She answers with "Yes, but who made them?" She has her own beliefs that are obviously based in Christianity but every Christian does not believe or worship in the same way.[/b] 4)[u]Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons?[/u] [b]He was in cryo to preserve the short time he had to live. As far as why he hid it from the crew perhaps he's an eccentric multi-quadrillionaire who likes to mess with people's heads. Or, if the comany and share holders believe he's dead he could be doing it for some business reasons.[/b] 5)[u]Why is Vickers being Weyland's daughter kept a secret?[/u] [b]Vickers being Weyland's daughter is kept secret from the audience. Never in the film does it suggest that this fact is kept from the crew. She has a different last name but that doesn't mean that the last name was made up. Maybe a married name or she kept her mother's last name.[/b] 6)[u]Why does Vickers even go on the mission when it's against her best intrest in regards to taking over Weyland Industries? It's not in her best intrest if other "sharks" are on earth plotting to take over the company while she's on the mission.[/u] [b]For one Weyland is not dead so the company is still his. Also, Vickers obviously has daddy issues. Her father prefers a replicant to her. Her father is dying. She expresses that in her opinion the mission is a joke and will not be successful therefore she believes her father is going to die on the mission. She looks at the mission as her last chance to redeem herself or win her father's love away from David.[/b] 7)[u]Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research?[/u] [b]What medical research is going to uncover immortality?[/b] 8)[u]Why does Weyland think he can appreciate or understand immortality or the Engineers reasoning and capabilities when he himself states that his creatioin, David, cannot appreciate the immortality he has been given because he has no soul?[/u] [b]Again, he's an eccentric, multi-quadrillionaire. He created another lifeform. He also obviously thinks he is on equal footing with the gods or Engineers. He is incredibly self rightious. And, unlike David, he has a soul.[/b] 9)[u]Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping?[/u] [b]They never go into any area of the pyramid that has not been mapped.[/b] 10)[u]Why would the crew remove their helmets when they admit that, though breathable, it could still be dangerous?[/u] [b]Once they find out it's breathable they never say anything about a chance of it still being dangerous. In fact, someone states that the air is, in fact, cleaner than earth's air.[/b] 11)[u]Why does David shine a flashlight at a hologram?[/u] [b]He's in a very dark place and has a flashlight in his hand. When most people are in the dark and hear or see something moving they usually will shine said flashlight in that direction.[/b] 12)[u]How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups?[/u] [b]The pup readout was loading to the display on the ship, Fifield had a piece of the equipment that showed them the readout however when he and Millburn decided to leave rather near their point of entry he had to leave the equipment with the crew who were staying so they could continue to find their way. Fifield and Millburn being men both think they can find their own way and don't bother contacting Janek for directions. Then the storm hits knocking out contact.[/b] 13)[u]Why are geologist Fifield and biologist Millburn not interested in the uber-important descoveries that the team make in the pyramid?[/u] [b]It's possible that they are too frightened to care about their careers at that point. Or better yet they are interested but are smart enough to hang back until the pyramid is found to be safe and without threat.[/b] 14)[u]Why is Millburn stupid enough to try to pet the hammerpeede?[/u] [b]Perhaps his inquisitive, biologist nature that was talked about being absent in question #36 has finally got the better of him. Also, Fifield had just showed him that he had marajuana in his resperator. This could explain why Fifield is super paranoid as well as why Millburn wants to pet the hammerpeede. Fifield is paranoid because he's stoned and Millburn is trying to show off in order to impress Fifield so he'll share the marajuana.[/b] 15)[u]How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them?[/u] 16)[u]Why doesn't the crew ask David to translate Engineer writing when they find out there's a contagion loose?[/u] [b]When they find out Holloway's infected is the first sign of a contagion. At this point they are in the pyramid and find Millburn's body and see that Fifield is missing. They also see the hammerpeede scuttle off which scares them as well. The sh*t has hit the fan at this point.They don't think about or have time to ask David to translate anything as they are trying to hurry and get to the Prometheus to help Holloway. Besides, David is off on his own mission at the orrey in the Juggernaut.[/b] 17)[u]Why does Janek go to have sex with Vickers?[/u] [b]Seriously??? All joking aside, Janek is the captain of the ship. He's not responsible for anything scientific which is what the mapping of the pyramid is. Also, at this point he has told Fifield and Millburn to hunker down and not bugger each other and all is quiet. Finally, at this point, there has been no threat. Just what he believes to be glitches with the pups.[/b] 18)[u]Why does nobody get angry at Janek for dereliction of duty?[/u] [b]See above answer.[/b] 19)[u]Why does David infect Holloway for no reason?[/u] [b]Before David infects Holloway he has a conversation with Weyland who is in cryo. When David leaves he comes upon Vickers lurking in the corridors. She askes David what Weyland said. "He said to try harder" he tells her. Weyland wants to find out what the "black goo" is capable of without being the guinea pig. Could it make him immortal? Could it make him morph into an alien? Could it give him the runs? He tells David to infect someone. David picks the person he likes the least of the crew. [/b] 20)[u]Why does infected Holloway act ok and return to the temple putting his girlfriend and crew in danger?[/u] [b]Holloway has no idea he's infected. He dosn't know what David did. All that happened before they left for the pyramid was what he saw in his eye in the mirror. He could have been thinking he was seeing things due to cryo or space travel or whatever. He didn't display any pain until they were in the ampule room and at that point he asked Shaw if what was going on was bad.[/b] 21)[u]How does David know what 3 months pregnant looks like in terms of an alien?[/u] [b]David tells Shaw she's 3 months pregnant BEFORE he tells her it's not human. He's telling her she's 3 months pregnant in terms of the size of a human fetus at 3 months. He knows they haven't been there for 3 months and that the alien fetus couldn't be that old as they hadn't been there 3 months.[/b] 22)[u]Why does David put Shaw to sleep when she asks him to take the alien fetus out?[/u] [b]First, putting Shaw to sleep and in cryo is the most rational actions he could take as the med-pod only works on males and they don't have the personel to do the procedure.[/b] 23)[u]Why does Shaw not mention David's behavior to anyone after the c-section?[/u] [b]Because his behavior was totally rational.[/b] 24)[u]Why is nobody, especially David,curious about what happened to Shaw and her baby after the c-section?[/u] [b]David trumped Shaw's pregnancy with the surviving Engineer. After he was found, anything else was secondary - which includes Shaw's baby. And David was the only one who SAW the fetus. I doubt he said much, of if he did, he was deliberately vague. Weyland's only concern was meeting his "maker", and since Shaw was obviously alive and coherent, why would Weyland even care? He was on borrowed time, only days to live - if that. He's not going to give a crap about what Shaw was up to.[/b] 25)[u]Why does Janek assume that LV-233 is an "experimental weapons depot" located far away from the Engineer's home world?[/u] [b]Janek explains this himself to Shaw in the film.[/b] 26)[u]If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it?[/u] 27)[u]Why is the ships control system started by a flute and controlled with buttons instead of being contolled by a flute OR buttons exclusively?[/u] [b]Do cars start up when you push the gas pedal or stereo buttons? No. They start with keys. The flute is the key the Engineers chose.[/b] 28)[u]Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on?[/u] [b]He has just been awakened early from a long sleep by inferior beings who he and his kind created and now want to destroy. These inferior beings have somehow found them and the rest of his beings on the ship are dead. He sees them somewhat of a threat. He has no idea what they know or what they're capable of. Not physically, he knows he can handle them physically. He's worried about what they know about the Juggernauts on the planet and their plan to destroy mankind.[/b] 29)[u]Why do Janek's co-pilots offer up their lives so readily?[/u] [b]First ands foremost the fact that the lifeboat can only sustain life for 2 years means they are going to die before anyone can rescue them anyway. Also, Janek seems to be a boss that they definitely look up to and they obviously respect him to the utmost. Plus, how often do you get a chance to save the entire planet instead of running like a coward?[/b] 30)[u]Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash?[/u] 31)[u]Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle?[/u] 32)[u]How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life?[/u] [b]If you look you can see that the part of the Juggernaut that lands where Shaw is is sloped inward which means the part of the ship that hit the rock was also lower to the ground when the ship hits. If the ship is sitting flat on flat ground that part of the ship would not be touching the ground.[/b] 33)[u]Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts?[/u] [b]See question #28.[/b] 34)[u]How does Shaw's baby grow so big in a confined area with no food source?[/u] [b]The trilobite fetus grew at an alarming rate while inside with what would seem to be little nutrition from Shaw as from the time she had intercourse and was impregnated to the time of the c-section she had not eaten anything. The trilobite just continues this trend after the c-section. Or perhaps the trilobite ate some of the crew members we didn't see much of.[/b] 35)[u]Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans?[/u] [b]To get answers. She states this at the end of the film. She doesn't care the cost. In her mind she will get answers from the Engineers or die and meet her maker and get answers that way.[/b] 36)[u]How did Shaw manage to acomplish all the feats of strength and daring after a very painful c-section?[/u] [b]Shaw gives herself painkilling shots during the c-section as well as after. The combination of future surgical tools and techniques, the ability of future drugs to kill pain as well as good ol' adrenaline could have easily helped her along.[/b] 37)[u]How did the Trilobite survive the sterilization process?[/u] [b]The Trilobite does have some human DNA and perhaps the Pauling Med-pod's sterilization process is not calibrated for human/alien hybrid parasite trilobite.[/b] 38)[u]Why is the Prometheus no equipped with weapons to blow the Juggernaut up instead of having to fly into it?[/u] [b]Scientific expedition. Not an attack ship.[/b]

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spacyfreak
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June 14, 2012

ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING can be explained "SOMEHOW", but isnt it strange that we NEED some explanations for a sci-fi movie? By the way - WHAT WAS THE MEANING OF THE VERY LAST SCENE IN KUBRICKS 2001 WHERE THIS ASTRONAUT IS AN OLD MAN AND THAN A BABY etc? That scene - to ME - means - in other "dimensions" you may have COMPLETE DIFFERENT rulez, which have nothing to do with physical/intellectual rulez we are used to as humans living on earth and having limited knowledge/intellectual skills/imagination..

JesperJotun
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June 14, 2012

@ spaceyfreak Alright, those are some plotholes that can be plugged if you'll care to listen. - The head exploding: they did not know it was a helmet so upon removing it they decided to see what they could learn about the nervous system. They "trick" the nervous system in to believing it was alive (we do this with frogs in biology class). Upon the electricity being introduced Shaw notices rapid cellular growth NOT indigenous to the Engineer's biology (she says as much). She orders the stimulus to be removed but the current flowing through a brain can still remain long after the impulses have stopped (once again biology), Now, since it's a foreign substance that is meant to be spread (ala` spores similar to the X-Files episode "F. Emasculata) which violently erupt after reaching a certain gestation period, it's not far fetched to believe this is the same principle here as the electricity could've accelerated the cell deterioration or the black goo's propigation to where it needed to exit the hose. Also, later in the movie Milburn and FitField find the bodies of more Engineers and upon examination discover they were killed through violent explosions from within, the "Art of Prometheus" book shows the model used for this scene, and guess what, holes in their heads. - The Huggoth/Trilobite - Now, consider for a moment that in Earth's early biological development there were things known as arthropods which were distant cousins to squids and octopi. Now, biologists have discovered that while arthropods may be born tiny (some as small as 3 inches in length) they can grow rapidly into much larger creatures, think of giant squids and how big they get 11ft-66ft (their eggs begin at less than an inch long and wide). So this is not as far fetched as you might think and simple biology coupled with the fact that if the black goo is responsible for our beginnings....you get the idea. - Now I will agree that The Deacon felt slightly tacked-on, but it was hinted at from the very onset of them entering the Ampule Chamber. The murals depict it in several different forms before you reach the one that's been "crucified." So having a living one "pop" out at the end, while a little tacked-on, isn't a plothole. It's simply an opinion of whether we needed to see it Also, it could have been the studio saying "Scott, we need to see this<" and since they're the ones putting up the money? In it went. But it's not a plothole. - Once again with Vickers, opinion, not plothole. Her character plays the role of Burke from ALIENS as a representative of the company that funded the expedition. Therefore she's there as the "manager" role. How many managers do you know that people 100% pay attention to at all times? Also, Weyland states that the scientists, Shaw and Elizabeth, are in charge and they're running things, and they aren't privy to Vicker's little, "I'm the queen bee" speech to them later, ergo, as far as everyone else is concerned she's just "the suit" in the room. Now, as far as her not being obeyed nor there being no consequences for people disobeying her? There were. Right off the bat she tells the team she's shutting the doors to the ship when the storm picks up, so they leave the temple and head back, knowing she will keep her word, which she does. Also Janek orders the hanger doors opened so they could get Halloway back inside. Vickers orders the men to leave it shut. They do. Janek continues his orders but the door is not opened until Vickers says, "Okay, open it." Also, she blatantly states that Halloway is not entering her ship, and we have a stand-off. Halloway does sacrifice himself, but it is clear that Vickers did not understand his intention at the time she poured napalm into his face. Once last thing, at the end, they witness Weyland die, and as his vitals go out, she orders the ship to leave, which they immediately begin prepping for. So yes, there were consequences. - Ford, agreed about a wasted character, BUT, in terms of plot, we don't what happened between the moments of Shaw knocking her out and Weyland waking up. Yes she is in the room prepping Weyland, but honestly, David knew that Shaw wannted the creature out and knew she was going to, so after she ran to do so, he could've simply let her go and called Ford in to finish the original mission, which was for Weyland. That makes logical sense. - Geologist, Fitfield. You're right. He DOESN'T care about finding EBEs, he just likes rocks lol. He says as much in the movie, which was a great line I thought. He's there to get paid, which he also explains to Milburn and therefore finding these things wasn't his pay grade. Bilogist, Milburn. Seeing as how Shaw and Ford are there and are obviously versed in biology and medical I'm not sure why Milburn was there originally. However, his reaction to something that stood a good 3.5-4 ft above him and was decapitated on the floor of an ALIEN planet was pretty human. He was scared sh*****. Also, he was trying to make friends with Fitfield anyway for whatever reason and when he bolted, Milburn "followed the leader," in this case. It happens in social circles all the time. Also, they weren't told what they were after when they signed up and when they were, neither of these guys believed it was gonna happen. So when they're proven wrong, everything Milburn possibly knew about biology, evolution and creation coulda went right out the window, which any normal person would need a minute to go, "Okay, f*** this I'm gonna need a minute." - LOST - haha I wondered about this myself actually. That is until I realized something, the "pups" hadn't finished mapping the whole structure yet, and the data that they were receiving wasn't 100% completed yet. Also, they followed the holograms that David inadvertantly set off to the Ampule Chamber, not the pups. So when he checks out from the main party, he makes a couple of guesses that were wrong. Also, the team wasn't much paying attention to them from the ship or the team as they'd just found the Ampule Chamber, otherwise they might've been able to redirect them. Also, the storm coming up as quickly as it did and they're truncated time constraints could've played a part in their not realizing they were gone. When they got back Shaw said they should've been back by now, and Janek states that they'd lost contact with em as soon as the storm hit. Not 100% explained and still felt a little weird as well, but it is somewhat answered on screen. - This scene honestly isn't as bad everyone keeps making it out to be. Watch a nature show on Discovery Channel or Animal Planet, almost every time, when I biologist finds something that isn't immedately threatening, they try and either talk to it, or try to make physical contact with it. It's a natural reaction to try and touch things and make tangible contact with it. This moment happens for all of 2 minutes, from meeting to attack, and in those 2 minutes I see nothing that resembles anything out of the ordinary. Also, when Kane first discovers the Eggs in ALIEN he puts his face over an unknown biological entity that he himself states has "movement," and yet no one seems to find that out of the ordinary, which by the same logic applied here would cause that scene to have the same reaction as an Executive Officer onboard a ship would never place themselves in harms way most of the time. So I'm sorry, but this isn't a plothole for me. - The Operation - everyone mentions this, but everyone also forgets that she does not move without difficulty for the rest of the movie. Also, immediately afterward, in her room, and before she suits up, she takes a shot, a handfull of pills, and more pills. Painkillers, adrenaline, force of will and her need to finish what she started and what her boyfriend died for can cause people to do many things. Also, the staples are seen later and we can clearly see that her scar has healed incredibly. We don't know what kind of medical advances happen in the 70+ years in the future this takes place. Therefore we don't know if the medication or surgical pod applied a regenerative component upon sewing her back up. It's a question yes, but honestly, it's not too unbelievable as I said, the rest of the movie she does issues moving about. Whenever she runs, we see her only able to do so for short fits, while hobbling and then needs to rest and recover (escaping the engineer). - Squid Baby - Okay, this one is just deconstruction analyzing. This creature was sterilized, and decontaminated but since it contains traces of human DNA the pod possibly recognized it as such and didn't kill it. Also, since arthropods (stated above) can breathe underwater, in highly concentrated atmospheres of methane and CO2, does stripping the atmosphere kill it? Maybe not. Also, the Xenomorph and the facehuggers, and all biological entities associated with them and their reproductive lifecycle are known to be able to survive in Zero-G space. It's one of the reasons why the creature is created/revered. So once again, not a plothole. It's shown unmoving to the audience to give the illusion that it's dead, so when it comes back it's a surprise. It's a movie trick and nothing more. - Why is this a plothole? That was Weyland's mission from the get go. Therefore they complete their mission, it just didn't turn out the way they thought. I mean, big dude's been asleep for 2000 years and his last mission was to eradicate the very thing that's now standing in front of him. Not only that, but it's brought it's own creation with them, and abomination that's learned how to read, understand, and speak it's language while it's own creation (humanity) hasn't learned didly. I'd be pretty pissed too. - Uh, SCIENCE vessel? Why would they need onboard weapons for a ship that's passing through space not being intercepted by hostile forces. I mean, if you wanna go down that route why didn't they ask for military support? Oh wait, the mission's classifed. Ergo, they don't want the military involved. Therefore placing weapons on a science vessel would be a warning light to the USMC. Not only that, but they had a security team brought with them with projectile weapons and flamethrowers. So there was security onboard. Janek himself states that it's not a warship therefore it has no onboard weapons that are able to bring down the Juggernaught. Once gain, not a plothole. - Uh, you ever worked in retail? Or any job for that matter? I've seen countless people get fired or "disciplined" due to cold, heartless managers. It's the nature of the beast. I mean she's an allegory for the faceless corporations that use and abuse people for their own means and don't give a flying flip about the consequences. And she's also not mean to everyone. Her dialogue and interaction with Janek is personable and friendly. She lets her guard down around him. She's only cold to the scientists (who she feels is wasting time and money) and David (who she sees as direct competition for Weyland's affections). And whether or not Theron was right for the part is opinion and not a plothole. Any more questions?

hadster87
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June 14, 2012

Yeah the more and more I think about this film, the more I hate it. I wanted it to be so good, but when you add it up, it's pretty bad. Whether or not they are plot holes or things that just didn't make sense, this movie has too many to count. Once you find an answer to 1 question, you just create more questions. Fifield for example...Hes freaking out, going crazy, tells everyone him and the other guy are leaving. OK..Why was he freakin out? Oh he smoked pot and was getting paranoid. WTF was he doing smoking pot? Crack team of scientists on the greatest discovery and this guy is getting baked in his space suit. So the rest of the team leaves...No body notices that the van and quads are all there, no body thinks oh they must have walked? Fifield finds out theres a lifeform west of him, so he runs east, but he was lost. How could he know where east was? Then cozies up with a space snake. Cuz if its a space snake its gotta be more friendly than earth snake. So they die. Then nobody notices Fifields helmet cam going all the way from the tomb to Prometheus until its on the ramp? That's just 1 scenerio, there are too many others. Just poor writing.

Tetrarch42
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June 14, 2012

Here are the plot issues I identified and found to be the most glaring, but by no means the only plot holes: 1. Shaw's Squid Baby/Proto-Facehugger Growth. -I understand the gray goo has amazing transformative and mutagenic properties but how did this things grow from at most 10 kgs. to at least 150 kgs. in a couple of hours in a sealed room? Growing from sperm cell size to 3 month foetus size makes sense given that the parasite was growing from Shaw, but this doesn't work in a sealed room; where did it get all the matter and energy to grow so large so fast? You can't make mass from nothing. If the Engineers could create matter from nothing they would be pretty much omnipotent, it's a complete violation of Thermodynamic Law. 2. Terrible Mission Design. -It's a trillion dollar operation but the mission had like a dozen flaws. Why did it have so few security personnel? Why didn't the scientists have an armed escort? Why weren't there guards posted in the corridors? Why didn't they send out remote controlled probes to scout the base? Why weren't the scientists ordered to wait until the dust storm had passed before exploring the ruins? Why not set up a forward base with communications equipment, a fall-back point, why did the ship not even have basic weaponry, what if they needed to blast apart rocks or space debris, et cetera?. I understand it isn't a military operation but shouldn't it be handled as such given the environment and risks are pretty much completely unknown? 3. Unrealistic Character Responses. -There were a great deal of these. The geologist and biologist decide one of the greatest scientific discoveries in history isn't to their liking to they head back to the ship, that's dumb. What sorry excuses for scientists they are, these are the best Weyland the trillionaire can find? -Relatedly, the expert geologist gets lost in the derelict spaceship, can't he use a compass? -Halloway sees a worm crawling in his eye and begins to feel ill and he never goes to the doctor, that's weird, I would be panicking. -Janek convinces Shaw and the crew members that the Engineers must be hostile, with the grey goo being developed as a bio-weapon in like... four sentences? -Characters never seem to know what other characters are doing. Why wasn't there a mission briefing after each visit to the Pyramid? Shouldn't the scientists be submitting their findings for review and analysis? -Edit: Millburn goes from a scared, disoriented, probably cold and hungry scientist to a curious explorer in moments. Fifield and Millburn are told there's movement to the west so they run east, but then Millburn is stretching out a hand towards the space-cobra-parasite? I don't but it. The issue isn't that the scientist is acting unreasonably to a new organism, it's that moments earlier he's shown a much more cautious and even frightened response to the idea.

Engineering
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June 14, 2012

HOLY CRAP! My eyes just popped out of their sockets! I don't think I reserved enough space. I thought my taunting would start a nice discussion but I had no idea there would be this much input so soon. Awesome. I will get to taking this apart. Obviously I'm going to have to truncate the proposed plot holes to their essentials so they don't take up too much space. I'm obviously going to have to do this with the answers and theories given as to why they are not plot holes as well. This will take some time but I think it can be pretty cool and informative. Hopefully this thread will change the minds of some people that don't like the film but I'm sure it could do the opposite as well. I just hope it doesn't. To work!

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BigDave
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June 14, 2012

There are plot holes, but it depends what you call a plot hole. Yes there is some unexplained stuf... thats not plot hole. Yes there seems to be some missing scenes again not plot hole... for instance why Engineer Sacreficed himself and the Flying Saucer, well this is not a plot hole it was a unexplained scene and one that apeared to needed a reason/another scene and thus now with the new leaked Elder Engineer scene, indeed that explains the above. There are a number of out of character performances that kind of go against the personality given for certain characters... these are not plot holes but just bad use of Characters. I think some plot holes are down to human nature and when excitement over takes rational thought.... for instance Holloway taking his helmet off, then Shaw but dont forget they are not true Scientists they are archaeologist. Milburns rather silly attempt to pet a unknown species... well maybe he got over excited and his emotions of finding a alien organism overode his common scense. I dont think such things really distract from the movie, as i am sure you could pick plot holes in Alien and Blade Runner they are after all Sci Fi which is Fiction.

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BigDave
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June 14, 2012

Regarding David and Weyland and the Goo and Try Harder... Yes this is no plot hole... yes there is a scene thats unexplained that never happened and thats what did Weyland say to David... We can only assume... 1) David tells Weyland he found the Urn and maybe has a rough idea whats inside, Weyland wants to know if what he found could in anyway give him the answers he wants as far as extend life. David does not know, Weyland wants him to try harder. 2) David as non biological may not know the effect of the black substance, he would need some way to find out what it does.... After conversation with Holloway and how he claims he would do anything for answers, David sees this as a opportunity to test a small amount of the Black Substance on a Human.... I do not think that David would know that this goo would then make Holloways Sperm make a Shaw who cant get pregnant, become with child that is a hybrid of Human and Alien DNA. The more concerning plot hole for me was that David seemed very interested the the fact Shaw was carrying a Alien Embryo/Fetus and seemed interested and having Shaw and her unborn hybrid child put into cryostasis so that when the Ship returns they can extract and examine the Organism in a more controlled enviroment... But what bugged me was that after Shaw managed to get away and get to the Med Table and get the Organism cut out of her and then make her way and collapse infront of David and Weyland, they both never seemed bothered about what Shaw had got upto... This for me was the biggest plot hole in the movie for me, because it was a massive part of the plot and surely why after being very interested did they seem to not care or came across as they never even knew she was carrying anything....

R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

jrh
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June 14, 2012

However, I can accept the shoddy science. Nothing ever said they were a team of real pros. or crack scientists-- that was our assumption. In fact they looked pretty patchwork from minute 1. This was a team of people hired by a corporate nut. Weyland's hubris and pathology shows all the way from the team he funded, through the patricidal philosophy in David's algorithms, to the seething bitch that is his neglected daughter. They were all morons. The mission was private from the beginning, & Weyland funded these enthusiasts who were good at reading cave paintings and reporting their findings to him. But not nec. pros at true expeditionary science & logistics--these were people who would follow their passion and sign up for a PRIVATE mission for THIS ASSHOLE, which of course had very poor safety protocols & no accountability. --It's really just a bunch of dumb kids, cluelessly marching into the woods like reckless eager beavers b/c some old bastard tricked them into blazing a trail, so they'd show him where the deadfalls were by falling in them. They put their faith in Weyland and were wrong to. It is a criticism of expeditionary ineptitude, reckless planning & naivete in following a corporate nut's greed, impatience & hubris. So that all makes sense for me. Common themes of Scott's are the dangers of poor science, selfish leaders, and not treating our technology with respect. It's not what solid people would do, it's what amateurs, a bitch & some morons hired by an impatient & selfish old bastard would do, with a robot programmed by that bastard. That's Scott's point. Weyland's antics are to blame for the xenomorph. And his traits being part of human nature, perhaps the reasons the Engineers decided to wipe us out. However, the sequels better explain the rest, dammit. WHY LEAVE A MAP??? WHO LEFT IT REALLY??? TO WHERE??? DID OUR D'BAGS LAND ON THE RIGHT ROCK??? ARRRRRGGGHHHH >>>:)

Jedikooter
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June 14, 2012

Plot hole or just a continuity issue: How was David's body still right next to his head after the ship crashed and rolled?

Maiafay
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June 14, 2012

@Jesperjotun Thanks for the analysis, and I wish others that posted after you would have read it because you answered many of their questions in a logical, thoughtful manner. [quote][i]But what bugged me was that after Shaw managed to get away and get to the Med Table and get the Organism cut out of her and then make her way and collapse infront of David and Weyland, they both never seemed bothered about what Shaw had got upto...[/[/i]quote] David trumped Shaw's pregnancy with the surviving Engineer. After he was found, anything else was secondary - which includes Shaw's baby. And David was the only one who SAW the fetus. I doubt he said much, of if he did, he was deliberately vague. Weyland's only concern was meeting his "maker", and since Shaw was obviously alive and coherent, why would Weyland even care? He was on borrowed time, only days to live - if that. He's not going to give a crap about what Shaw was up to.

Engineering
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June 14, 2012

Ok, so I basically went thru Drakeequations long post and truncated his plot holes into questions. I do think some are just ridiculous, some would never be questioned if they were in a different film and some are reasonable questions or plot holes. While I would love to answer some of these I'm going to try to stay out of it like I said before. I'm going to post the questions here and also on the first page of this thread so we have a record. Then I will go thru people's arguments on why they are not plot holes and post them. That way other fans and new members can easily come in and find out information or answer questions they may have. So this is my interpretation of Drakeequations plot holes. 1)Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film? 2)Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct? 3)Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs? 4)Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons? 5)Why is Vickers being Weyland's daughter kept a secret? 6)Why does Vickers even go on the mission when it's against her best intrest in regards to taking over Weyland Industries? 7)Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research? 8)Why does Weyland think he can appreciate or understand imortality or the Engineers reasoning and capabilities when he himself states that his creatioin, David, cannot appreciate the imortality he has been given because he has no soul? 9)Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping? 10)Why would the crew remove their helmets when they admit that, though breathable, it could still be dangerous? 11)Why does David shine a flashlight at a hologram? 12)How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups? 13)Why does Milburn get close to the hammerpede when he should know better? 14)How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them? 15)Why doesn't the crew ask David to translate Engineer writing when they find out there's a contagion loose? 16)Why does Janek go to have sex with Vickers? 17)Why does nobody get angry at Janek for dereliction of duty? 18)Why does David infect Holloway? 19)Why does infected Holloway act ok and return to the temple putting his girlfriend and crew in danger? 20)How does David know what 3 months pregnant looks like in terms of an alien? 21)Why does David knock Shaw out and put her to sleep when she asks him to take the alien fetus out? 22)Why does Shaw not mention David behavior to anyone after the c-section? 23)Why is nobody, especially David,curious about what happened to Shaw and her baby after the c-section? 24)Why does Janek assume that LV-233 is an "experimental weapons depot" located far away from the Engineer's home world? 25)If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it? 26)Why is the ships control system started by a flute and controlled with buttons instead of being contolled by a flute OR buttons exclusively? 27)Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on? 28)Why do Janek's co-pilots offer up their lives so readily? 29)Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash? 30)Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle? 31)How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life? 32)Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts? 33)How does Shaw's baby grow so big in a confined area with no food source? 34)Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans? Annnnd we're done. Answers anyone?

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JesperJotun
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June 14, 2012

@ Lopan - I actually answered a few of your questions above, but I'll try to answers the ones I didn't here. 1 - Do you know everyone you work with? Even if they met prior to the ship being launched when they wake up Milburn simply wanted to strike up a conversation with Fitfield and simply introduced himself, which eve nif you've seen someone around your office or store a few times, but don't know them you are gonna do the same. I do it all the time, whether I've met someone in passing or not. So that's not unrealistic at all. 2 - There were projectile weapons. How could you not see them being fired? They used them on Fitfield and the Engineer. Also, in the trailers there are men holding firearms as well. That one you might have just missed. 3 - You assumed that the Engineer needed oxygen to breathe. You also assumed that the biological mass needed oxygen as well because we are used to Earth's living things containing such elements. However, there are numerous species that can survive without the high concentration of oxygen on our own planet therefore not all things require the same breathable atmosphere we do. Also, since this biological mass (Black Goo) is supposedly the beginning of the lifecycle for the Xenomorph which doesn't require oxygen to breathe, it may not need it as well. The Engineer's we see in the holograms in the halls of the temple have their masks ON, not off. It's only in their ship that we see them without (the planet at the beginning is excluded from this scenario). Now, I will grant you that it did NOT make sense for him to sprint to the downed lifeboat without his helmet. This may be the first question asked that can't be explained 100% and I applaud you for asking it!!! 4 - The only time I remember Janek asking about a character was right after the team returns to the ship after the doors are shut. Afterwards he returns to the CIC of the Prometheus and immediately pulls up the map, their helmet cams and asks them their location. In otherwords, he asks Shaw where they are, she said they should be back, they aren't and he goes to the correct place to check on their location. Following this, in the morning he goes out to their exact location and finds them dead. 5 - Continues from your previous question. He tells the guys to sit tight and they'd get them in the morning due to the storm raging outside. He was with Vickers that night, but in the morning he doesn't ask where they are, he wakes up Shaw and says they've lost contact with the guys so they're going for them. NOT that they don't know where they are. He even says that they were last spoke to outside the Ampule Room and grabs Chance and they roll out. 6 - Really? No human being would say "No weapons?" ALIENS, Ripley states that the weapons of the Marines would puncture a cooling unit and the instillation would go nova in reaction. Gorman requests that ALL magazines be taken by Apone and only Incinerator units are to be used. If it hadn't been for Drake and Vasquez being the bada**es they were those marines NEVER would stood a chance. So I ask you, a scientist wants no weapons on an expedition and we're upset by this, but a USMC Officer asks his men to walk blindly in to a hot zone with EBEs on the prowl (remember they knew the colonists bought it earlier) and we don't call THAT a plothole? Also, the mercenary winks at her and says, "Yeah. Good luck with that." and walks off with his weapon, ready to go. 7 - Covered above and I don't feel like typing it all out again. Short version. She's NOT fine, and shows considerable pains moving about. However, she takes a shot, pills, and more pills before heading out. Several times in the Temple and ship we see her pause, double over in pain and then react by being incapacitated after the Mercenary under Weyland's command gut-punches her in front of the Engineer. However, once adrenaline and sheer force of will kick in she knows she's gotta move her a**. Second part, David DOES say something to her. He looks at her and says, "I didn't think you had it in you. I'm sorry, poor choice of words. Remarkable survival instincts though Elizabeth. Trully remarkable." Also, when she shows up with blood on her in medlab, the people there already guessed what she did as David might have informed them already. So they're not surprised by it at all. In fact, they initially try to help her but she pushes them away until David offers her his coat. 8 - The only people who didn't know he was on board were the scientists. Vickers knew, David knew, Ford knew, the mercenaries he hired to protect his investment knew and probably the flight crew. So the only one shocked by his appearence was in fact, a scientist. And she did react by saying, "You've been asleep this whole time? Why?" and he explains that he had a few days of life and this was the only way he could see if Shaw was right. 9 - 10 hours from intercourse to the trilobite's c-section. Shaw states this. The "screen time" is not the same as "real time." The lifepod had enough power, air and supplies for 2 years, Janek says this to Vickers before she exits the ship. So there is no telling how lone the Engineer has been "gestating." Kane took a minimum of a couple days from being facehugged to it falling off, him having his last meal and BAM! Dead. Same time fram may have applied. Now also, in later movies the gestation period for the Xenomorphs were drastically reduced, the ones in AVP2 were gestated in under a couple hours (Dad and Boy get hugged and then a hour or so later die). So while the scene I've come to acknowledged as being tacked-on, it still isn't a major issue. 10 - This one I COMPLETELY give you. The whole scene in the mountain should NEVER have been shown. It is not required as we have the briefing on board the Prometheus that explains what they've found and why we're going out here. As far as I'm concerned the movie should have started in space right from the get go and we should've learned everything else. Even the "Sacrificial Engineer" scene, which is probably the most realized scene in the movie, shouldn't have been there either. It should've started in space like all the other ALIEN films. lol I've never said the movie isn't flawed, because oh it is in places, dialogue and editing mostly, but you've got two more questions first. 11 - Also explained above, but I will say it simply here. When he first sees the dead Engineer with Shaw and the rest it's a slap in the face to all he knows. Everything Shaw had been saying would've went right out the window if they'd never found proof. Well, "mister Darwinism" there's your f-ing proof lol. By the time they discover the other dead Engineers and the Hammerpede later he's had a few hours to come to grips with things a bit. It's not so hard to believe at all. 12 - The DNA of Humans is perfect match for humans yes? Robert Wadlow, USA, died in 1940 was 8'11" tall, and from the Neolithic Period, a French Anthropologist discovered skeletal remains of an 11'6" framed proto-human. Also, Skin color is irrelevant, I mean really? African people are dark skinned, but they are human right? While genetics and latent genes do play a part in our visual appearance they don't define our humanity. The Engineers could have been altered through Eugenics and bioengineering. Perhaps over countless eons they'd evolved into what they are. But their base DNA would remain the same. Neolithic and Paleolithic men were physically stronger, structurally different, and had differently shaped skulls than us, but their DNA was still the same. Hope this answered your questions, I do realize that the movie has faults, I can list my own (maybe I should..hmm), but I didn't leave the film with as many issues as other people did and I'm just trying to answer those questions in the hopes that others might re-watch it and catch what I caught. It's all I'm asking lol.

Mursalin
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June 14, 2012

A movie is a movie and remains a movie, it's not called science fiction for nothing, If I want answers I'll go and watch a documentary. I enjoy a movie when it gives food for thought and discussions. That's what I liked about Blade runner and Alien. However these days the marketing whizes have determined that in order to proof their worth you will have to go online and look at various websites to try and get some of the answers. That's retarded, I wanna go and watch a movie and sure I don't need everything speled out, but I sure as hell don't want to have to go online to try and figure it out. Having said that my biggest plothole is that in the hologram animation, three enigneers run into the production vault, the last one trips and gets his head chopped off. Yet when David clearly opens the sealed chamber for the first time afterwards no sign of the other two engineers. As far as the awakened engineer is concernec here's my take. David and Shaw have a conversation which discusses that we want our parents dead in order to be free. Since it will be against his protocol to kill or ask other humans to kill his creator ( weyland) What if he asked the engineer to kill weyland. After all we can only guess as to what he says to the engineer. The engineer being a creator himself gets upset with his insolence plus the fact that he has been asleep for hmmmmm longer then your average nap, and tears of his head. Then whilst coming to himself realizes that with the humans aboard their has been a quarantine breach and remembers what happened to the rest of the engineers. Not wanting to end up with the same fate he wants to get the hell of the planet and the humans just stand in his way. Plausible, hmm probably not, but then again is anything else in this movie. Great stuff though enjoyed watching it and will probably go again.

Engineering
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June 15, 2012

Wow, this really has turned into a monster. I hope I can tame it and put something together out of it. But I love that it's sparked the amount of conversation that it has. There are so many "plot holes" that really hadn't been brought up or talked about. And yes, some are not exactly plot holes per say but unanswered questions and such. Outside this thread people would kind of mention the same things over and over and over again. I'm glad this conversation is more broad. I just got back from watching the film for the 3rd time and I had so much I wanted to talk about while I was watching it. Then the end started when David wakes the Engineer(my fave part) and I pretty much forgot the points I wanted to make. Then I told myself that it didn't matter that I forgot as I wanted to stay out of the debate and just read and gather everyone else's opinions. Next time I see it I'm taking notes lol.

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Lopan
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June 15, 2012

Thank you to JesperJotun for replying. I think it comes down to if people enjoyed it. I respect and only wish i could have as much as it seems everyone else did. But for me i there was many things like i said that just had me thinking way too much about "What if" and "Why" the whole movie. When i think about it the movie was really about not much at all. An old man wanted to live longer. That is the main story and i had hoped for something a little more.

Spartacus
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June 15, 2012

@Maiafay, Thanks Man, &... ooooo that's gotta sting the nay sayers... [b]SCOREBOARD UPDATE[/b] [b]Good Guys 1 Bad Guys Nothing !!![/b] LMFAO

Engineering
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June 15, 2012

@Maiafay...Yep, if you ask me that's a pretty much definitive answer to that question. I'm adding it as the answer on the first page.

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Engineering
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June 15, 2012

Just added this answer to the archive... 12)[u]How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups?[/u] [b]ANSWER... The pup readout was loading to the display on the ship, Fifield had a piece of the equipment that showed them the readout however when he and Millburn decided to leave rather near their point of entry he had to leave the equipment with the crew who were staying so they could continue to find their way. Fifield and Millburn being men both think they can find their own way and don't bother contacting Janek for directions. Then the storm hits knocking out contact.[/b]

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Engineering
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June 16, 2012

I have made a pretty large update to the archive. I know I said I was going to try to stay out of it and just archive other people's opinions but I've added a few of my views as well as used your views. Please take the time to read the first post and let me know what you think, what to add or what doesn't make sense. Also, what the thread really needs are answers to some of the questions which have things in them that I know nothing about like DNA. The question is "why is the Engineer's dna a perfect match to humans but there are so many differences?" I know nothing of dna and have no idea if there's an answer to that question. Any feedback or views are greatly appreciated. I do realize that a lot of the answers are speculation but it seems to make a lot of sense. None imo are far fetched speculations. If you really think some are let me know which one and why. The more and more I do this the more I realize that this movie is all about speculation and answering the questions for yourselves. I find it very entertaining. Talk about getting you money's worth out of a flick. And it's obvious to me that they did this on purpose. Not because Lindeloff is a bad writer. Please take a look at the first post at the top of this page and let everyone know what you think.

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Engineering
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June 16, 2012

Question #26 is the one big question that I have a problem with. I would be really surprised if this was a mistake or something and Scott and the writers didn't have something in mind regarding it. I hope we will see. Also, sorry about some of the spelling and mistakes. For some reason I can no longer edit the first post. All subsequent corrections or answers to questions will have to go in one of the reserved posts on the first page of the thread. *****EDIT***** Sorry, question 26, not 21.

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