Was the Deacon shown to us right from the beginning of the movie, on the Mural?

Well, the facehugger is more arthropod, Cuddles is more kraken as a ammonite :p

@Wurnman, I agree man, in fact I posting my thoughts for fun, and if I'm wrong, well I don't care. I do not want to convince people that my theories are correct. These are just my opinions, nothing more.

No, am sorry, I disagree with that too. First of all, it makes a lot of you guys way too frantic and sensible about stuff, and a lot take it personally and get hostile when you disagree or show them they're wrong (not anyone here in particular, just *a lot* of people on this site). Second. yeah we're here for fun, sure. I'm here for that too. However, even if we're not turning this into an act of faith, there's not much point in being there if it just turns into "I'll throw anything that goes through my head and give it just as much importance as what the filmmaker said". The problem with doing that is people can't get what is reliable from what is just your made up stuff. It's annoying cause it's then impossible to figure if you know stuff I don't or not. Then, and that's more annoying, once someone proves you wrong, it can also discredit reliable info other people didn't have, just because you threw them among a slime of your personal stuff. Ok, am not asking for peer-reviewed publications here. Maybe that's where the fun comes from for you guys, but i see no point in saying "It is like that, and it has to be this" when nothing *at all* backs your claims... just annoying to me. EDIT: let me give an example so you don't come bashing me. Sorry Gahlaktus, nothing against you personally but was quite typical of what I generally mean. On page 8: "[...] Notice that the last engineer appears adapted to breathe external atmosphere for brief periods, it seems. That's how he chases down Shaw from the crashed Juggernaut." or in the last paragraph "[...] Well, the gills cause that. [...] So, I think we can safely conjecture , based on vocal patterns, that the Alien space jockey came from LV 223." See my problem is not you making stuff up, it's you making *your* stuff sound like it has any support. Some noob around here will read that and then go around spreading the good word. Then we'll never get rid of it, while actually, nothing backs it and, on the opposite, crew's interviews indicates it's nothing but their "precious suit"...

Well I respect the all opinions, and I repeat, I only come here to have a good time. My regards

no probs, said what I wanted to say, am done with it too. Back to wrecking our brainz onto what elements we got. btw Shambhala, love your avatar gif, is it Game of Thrones? seems it is, must watch it. Plus that white-hair girl in it seems very dear on the eye. Cheers -T.

Hey guys. I just thought of this when trying to figure out the black goo, it’s exact function, and some plot-holes surrounding it. We see from the first scene an engineer sacrificing himself to create life on an as of yet barren planet. Whether this is Earth or not is inconsequential to my point here. It shows that when the black goo is mixed with the DNA of this special being that it will create life from the beginning (presumably following evolution in the same way it occurred on Earth) until at the very end, the dominant species that emerges on top is one with the COMPLETE and EXACT DNA structure as the original engineer (presumably billions of years later). Magical and unbelievable...but this is magic goo that creates life on planets so we might as well suspend that disbelief too. So, this shows that if “mixed” in this certain way, life will spread and propagate a planet, but the end result will somehow ALWAYS be the human form. This shows that not only was it the engineers plan to spread life on other planets, but eventually to have those planets inhabited by (basically) clones of themselves. So the quality we see from the goo is that somehow it funnels evolution towards one particular form. The black goo is also shown to have “evil” properties. I believe the goo can go one of two ways. It can take a good path of evolution or a bad path. The bad path, instead of leading to a human, will always lead to a XENO (the great destroyer of human/engineer life). The black goo SPEEDS UP evolution...by billions of orders of magnitude. When introduced to a planet with little or no life (and mixed with the special DNA of the engineer), it takes BILLIONS of years for life to develop. But when introduced to already higher life-forms the process goes haywire. We saw that when a maggot (presumably dragged in by the exloprers boots) encounters the goo it evolves into a giant snake that has already adapted the ability to regenerate when severed. And to my point about how all “evil” paths of the black goo lead towards the XENO, we see that even though we can follow the life-cycle of the black goo to sperm thingy to engineer bodyhugger to weird deacon alien- that no matter what the host is, IT IS LEADING TOWARDS THE XENO FORM...and FAST. So JUST AS all life started on rogue planets and will somehow eventually lead to the human form, all “evil” incantations of the goo will eventually lead to the XENO form. I believe the XENO is the exact opposite end of the spectrum (biologically) from the engineer/human form and is used to exterminate any civilization of humans that is not pure. I think the green amber contains pure XENO DNA and is the cleanest way to form a XENO from the black goo. And just my personal opinion about the Christian themes...they very well could be hard plot-points (that Jesus was ACTUALLY an engineer and our decision to crucify Him has turned them against us). But I would like to believe (as a fan of Lindeloff and Scott), that these are devices used to connect the audience and enhance the subconscious scope of the script. Naming John Connor John Connor in Terminator 2 was clearly a reference to Jesus Christ (pay attention to everyone with JC initials in movies), but it was more of a clever subconscious tool that people talented at the craft of screenwriting used to weave into their stories.

iapetus: I know excately what you mean. Ive seen it on other sites so many times, where a seed is planted and then everyone believes it and take it as law. I still however believe we are here to through our ideas out there. If this Topic read Facts only then by all means, facts only. Thx for you explanation.

From the carving on the wall, it seems that the Xenomorphs are something the Engineers admired. Perhaps it is in their mythology. Perhaps it is something one of their artists designed. Since they are bio-engineers, they probably tried to create one (that's pretty much what the goo in Prometheus accomplishes), and it is a safe bet that they created more than the one version. Given the bio-diversity on Earth after the sacrifice at the beginning of the movie, it is also a safe bet that they do not create one creature, but an entire "form of life" with many variants. The goo didn't only mutate humans, it also mutated the worms and the Engineers, so it is a safe bet that humans are not necessary for the creation of the Xenomorphs, just live beings. My thesis is that the Engineers were trying to remake all life on Earth in a new image.

in a recent interview about making prometheus 2, Ridley told the french website ecranlarge.com that he ''didnt want to show us god in the first episode''. That he would love to explore where Shaw would be going and that if she gets to paradise ( the original title of Prometheus was Paradise), then it should be very threatening and sinister. it shouldnt be the way we think of it. He also confirms that the chamber with paintings, big face and urns is a ritual and religious chamber. and he hints at the position of what ppl theorizes as being the Xeno or the proto-xeno or whatever by stating that it is in fact, crucified. honestly, i think it was right in my face and i just didnt see it. that this thing is in the same position as christ. not sure what it could mean. he also adds that it could be interesting to see the events from this point of view : '' our children are behaving really badly waging war everywhere ( in reference to the Romans), we will send them one last emissary to try and stop this. guess what? they crucified him'' which is also really interesting, considering that the jockeys on LV-223 decided to ''change their mind'' approximatly 2000 years ago. for those who can read french, its right there :http://www.ecranlarge.com/article-details-23083.php

Ridley also refers one time at the engineers as black angels. Also, it seems like all things humanoid entering in contact with the ooze tends to mutate towards a xenomoprh-kind-of form. fifield was suppose to look like this when coming back to the Prometheus :http://images.fandango.com/MDCsite/images/featured/201206/prometheus-babyhead-design.jpg

hey guys, you should check out this video with the cast and crew of Prometheus. it is hilarious stuff... a different kind of interview lol uncensored :)))) Ridley Scott, Charlize Theron, Michael Fassbender are in it... check it out. http://www.ngtv.com/video/prometheus-uncensored-with-charlize-theron-michael-fassbender-ridley-scott-1678828383001/

Nice post ruidude I did not see in details this crystal but for sure it is important because we know that they changed it from the first trailer (black cup goo) into this crystal. It is definitely a great hint. Here is my blog if you want to read about my theories and maybe learn new things about Prometheus : http://gameofcrowns.wordpress.com/ Great job guys! Max

Iapetus : Nothing taken personally, nothing intended personally. What I've talked about is right there on the screen. Now, I may have inferred the improper conclusion from what I've seen, that's altogether possible, but what I've described actually does take place on the screen. I don't have any "theories", I'm attempting to have a conversation. Finally, I didn't "make" anything up. What's there on the screen is there on the screen. If you have objections with something I've written, then cite your objections point by point, don't lump them all together, call someone out by name and then assert that your argument isn't ad hominem. It is. If you have a counter argument, please make your points. I've read your objections, I've yet to read your counterargument I've read your stuff before and thought it was good. It was well reasoned. Your last post wasn't.

@Iapetus: First, Ridley Scott, himself, stated that the LV 426 Space Jockey, “The Space Jockey of Alien” came from LV 223. RS said “The Space Jockey” belonged to an alternate group of engineers on LV 223 and departed LV 223 about one hundred years before the events that destroyed the group of engineers we see in Prometheus. According to RS, “The Space Jockey” was not headed to earth, but elsewhere before he developed some kind of trouble with his cargo. RS didn’t say what the nature of the trouble was but he did say that “The Space Jockey” landed and parked his ship on LV 426 to correct it. The rest is history. This is not “my stuff.” This is Ridley Scott’s stuff and I’m sorry that you weren’t aware of it before making your highly general, untimely, critical, and condescending remarks. There’s nothing “personal” in this summary or in those that follow. If you care to, you can find the interview. I hope you will find it to be enlightening. Second, I am assuming that we’ve all seen the deleted transmission scene from Alien. If not, a quick summary. Dallas tells Lambert to play the transmission, “Can we all hear that Lambert?” With a few deft strokes of the keyboard Lambert finds and plays the signal. Dallas, Ripley and Ash listen. The transmission sounds mysterious, alien, incomprehensible, and terrifying like - one of the madder moments of Jimi Hendrix, but genuinely alien. At the end of the transmission Ripley says, “Good God doesn’t sound like any radio signal I’ve heard.” Lambert says, “Maybe it’s a voice.” Dallas says, “Well, we’ll soon know.” Let’s move ahead to Prometheus to David’s first orrery scene of on the bridge of the Juggernaut. As David sits inside an oversized engineers’ chair he activates several holograms. First, one engineer appears and sits in the chair previously occupied by David, moments later the first engineer is joined by three more engineers. They perform their tasks. As they do they begin to communicate with one another. The voices heard, as the music from the film score rises in volume, sound like less dramatic and more subdued versions of the “voice” heard in the deleted transmission from Alien. These analogue voices sound as if they were washed through filters; they’re eerie and sound as if they were recorded underwater. They sound alien. The “voice” heard in Alien sounds like the voices heard briefly on the bridge of the Juggernaut. The voices sound as if they were emitted from or filtered through the “gills” or “slits” of the suits the engineers wear. Whether they are or not I don’t know. However, the voices all have the same sonic qualities. So, given Ridley Scott’s remarks about the background of “The Space Jockey”, the similar sonic qualities of the deleted transmission from Alien and the voices of the engineers overheard on the bridge of the Juggernaut, I’ve construed those voices as secondary evidence supporting Ridley Scott’s statements about the background of the Space Jockey. None of this is “my stuff.” It’s Ridley Scott’s stuff and it’s there in interviews and on the screen of Prometheus and in the deleted transmission scene from Alien. There’s nothing “personal” about it. Finally, I assume that the “slits” or “gills” of the engineers’ bio-suits have some function that isn’t merely baroque or decorative. It seems to me, since one of their functions is terraforming, that the “slits” or “gills” will allow them to extract oxygen for brief periods from noxious terraformed atmospheres in the event of an emergency. I see this as “adaptive” or proactive functionality on the part of the engineers. I’ve read a lot of posts where there are questions of verisimilitude raised regarding how the engineer “breathed” the atmosphere between the crashed Juggernaut and the EEV. My take is that the “slits” or “gills” allowed him to extract emergency oxygen for that brief interval. He could also have held his breath. But there are many aquatic images and metaphors used throughout Prometheus, the chairs surrounding the platform on the bridge of the Juggernaut all look like open scalloped seashells. The opening sacrificial scene culminates in water. David and Holloway toast one another. Vickers challenge to Shaw and Holloway is issued over a drink; there are the urns, there’s goo, etc. Gods and water go together. Look back at Egyptian, Norse, and Sumerian mythologies: primary acts of creation are enacted through water. It’s an old story. The primeval Nommo fish of the Dogon. The Egyptian gods construct canals to constrain the primeval water creatively rather than destructively. The Sumerian gods force lesser groups of gods to construct canals for water, etc. So, given all of the Sumerian mythological background underlying Prometheus it makes sense for the engineers to have adaptivity to varying conditions. They’re gods. The ‘gills” metaphor is consistent with all of the aquatic images and metaphors strung throughout Prometheus. So, these are the sources, none of it is “my stuff.”

My question is: how did that Deacon fit inside the Engineer host? I mean that thing is almost -- if not as big -- as the host!! What did it do? Come up through the floor?! LOL!!! That's the question I had! At least the chestburster was the right size to be in a human body...it would fit...

As it seems you focused on that in my message, I will keep quoting that same part of your stuff again, so as not to aggravate the situation. [i]The gills also signify something else. Remember the deleted transmission scene from Alien? How incomprehensibly alien, terrifying and mysterious that transmission sounded? Well, the engineers of LV 223 sound like that. When you see the movie again listen for their voices beneath the music as the holograms communicate across the cockpit. You'll hear a quieter, softer, more subdued and less dramatic vocalization than that of the deleted transmission, but it has the same strange sound and tonality. Quite eery. Well, the gills cause that. They're terraformers as well, so they need to extract oxygen from noxious atmospheres from time to time. So, I think we can safely conjecture , based on vocal patterns, that the Alien space jockey came from LV 223. So, there we have it![/i] nowhere have I seen that on screen, or maybe I've seen an altered version of both films...? My problem, as it seems unclear for you, is not the LV-223 origin of the LV-426 derelict/engineer but I was solely using your gill [i][b]assumption[/b][/i] and [i][b]how much stuff[/b][/i] you made out of it without support, to give an example. If it makes you feel better, I had already read RS's interview which put an end to the debate regarding the LV-426 derelict, though I was already convinced of that myself. About the gills. Ok, I know what you mean, it is just a formulation of what you think and you just take a couple shortcuts with language. And again, it's nothing against or your theories, I have my owns. But precisely my problem is that once you've said that and taken those shortcuts, you've just convinced yourself they were not theories. Which actually is exactly what you are acknowledging in your previous posts: "I don't have any "theories [...] I didn't making anything up" & "So, these are the sources, none of it is “my stuff.”" Must say I am impressed with your self-conviction, a bit like finishing your own post with "[i][b]So, there we have it![/b][/i]" brilliant. Well, yes you do and you did have theories. All that gill part is nothing but your own assumptions. The fact you base it on elements from the film doesn't make it a fact itself. If I told you those are not gills but that in fact, they are decorations and the number of slits depends on the engineer's military rank, that would not be a fact, that would be me making stuff up. Just like you. Sorry, but the initial quote of your Jun-11-2012 8:53 PM post is just that, a theory not a fact. Nowhere do you have any element that can even remotely link to them having gills, except that it is "what you chose to believe". It is what a theory is, ask David about that. Now, I have no problem with you thinking that and I can clearly live with it, while it seems the opposite is not true, given how you're heating your replies yourself. What I do find annoying though is the tone and manner with which your state [i][b]your stuff[/b][/i] like it is facts, while it is not. And you just hit the nail another time then in your replies, showing how honnestly you were convinced it was a fact, while it is not. It is my position since I first posted about that and I still hold by it. I just see no point in pushing your stuff as facts and I explained that clearly in my previous posts. Again, I have no problems with any assumption you want to make. In the end, I don't even have neither the right nor the power to make you change your way to post your stuff. However, you will not turn your stuff into facts just by repeating it or saying "it is so". If I may add, as I previously said, I used the first significant example I found. Unfortunately it was you and may be not the "best/worst" example but I did that to illustrate my point. My messages were not directed specifically at you, but actually at many people, including staff members, who do not make any distinction in their post between reliable and personal elements. I think it just confuses the debate and make it harder to discuss. Like I predicted then, by making all this so personal, the last consequence making debate even more complicated, is how biased and hostile you turn when one tries to show you these are not reliable facts but only assumptions. In the end it all depends why you are here. To me, it is just for fun, and my priority is to learn what is the backbone of that story, if possible myself but this is no priority. Detach yourself from your posts and you can only gain a clearer and more objective view of the elements and whether they are canon or your theory. To get back to the point. I do have elements, and I linked to it, that include interviews of sfx/prosthesis artists and other info regarding the casting/directions given to the actors playing the engineers. All that point to the fact that the sacrificial engineer and the later ones are exactly the same, and what you consider to be gills are part of what they call "the precious suit". Now if you chose to omit those [b][i]facts[/i][/b] in favor of your [b][i]theory[/i][/b], you are free to do it. I think the engineer just had a small distance to walk from the juggernaut and it was said humans could hold ~3mn in the atmosphere. Even if nothing support that, I could chose to assume he is just a bit more resistant, and also quite irritated, which make he can reach the EEV without the need for a breathing apparatus (btw... wouldn't that probably be the Space Jockey suit, more than gills?). [b][i]This[/i][/b] is not a fact, but until proven wrong this is what I chose to believe. Cheers, -T.

Hi everyone! I still have to read this thread in whole before maybe adding my interpretation. I just wanted to say that I'm happy to see people discuss the thing that was troubling me the most as soon as the end titles appeared, and for the entire night after that! That's why I had taken the time to draw the life cycle of these creatures (for those who remember lol). Bye!

Engineer - if you have an opportunity to watch this scene again, see at the top of the Mural as the camera pans - I believe what I saw was the depiction of a queen's head - it is above the centered xeno, there is not much time spent on it so watch carefully!

This discussion took a turn for the...curious. Can we get back to the content of our conversation rather than the way it's presented?

DashelOrion: You are correct ive looked at this image and wanted to ask the question as to why nobody noticed the head above the spread armed xeno. The whole image looks like it could be a birth scene.

I think earlier posts are right, this mural depicts the entire life cycle of the xenomorph. The first progenitor of the first chest burster must become a queen as someone stated earlier. I forget who, but someone mentioned markings on the skull of the deacon. This allows for rapid propagation of the xenos after first infection with any host. It rapidly adapts to its host, making it ideal for dealing death on any planet. As a sideline, I have a small set of theories regarding the engineers. They all appear male and pretty much identical to me. As does the giant head statue in the urn room. I suspect we have not seen the engineer's maker but will in the next film. The film is highly self referential and references religion frequently, particularly Christianity quite a bit. My theories/interpretations are intended as food for thought: I believe the Engineers are not a race, but a collection of clones of an original singular male Engineer. An Adam without an eve. Whether Adam had his Eve lost, destroyed her or was denied her, we won't know until Prometheus 2/3. Eve took forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, attempting to become godlike and evade death. Instead her sin and Adam's cause God to curse women to painful birth, and men to a life of toil. If the Engineer female died at the hands of their creator, the Engineer is likely attempting to become a greater creator through this goo. Perhaps the goo is the modified remains of the engineer Eve or the after birth that killed her. Someone mentioned placentas earlier, and the images are nearly all of an empty dark red/black sack. Sick imagery, but seems very relevant. The engineer is blessed with gifts of physical and intellectual prowess except for the ability to reproduce after loosing his eve. The self sacrifice of a male engineer via the goo is a painful birth and the only way for the engineer to create life. In fact it may be the experiment he is performing, trying to find a way to recreate his Eve. We see the engineer clutch his rib cage as he falls down in the opening death scene, evoking the image of Eve being created from the rib of Adam. ***Highly Speculative**** 2000 years ago the engineers decide to wipe out man. Some people think its because we crucified one of them, which became our myth for Jesus. It might be possible the story of David versus Goliath is more likely. Get it, David versus a gigantic humanoid or engineer. The film does suggest that the engineer's experience with us echoes our experience with the xenos. Another possibility is that the virgin birth of Jesus is really referencing the first human-goo offspring. The film does take place during Christmas and calls back 2000 years. The virgin birth in the film is of the Engineer and the Deacon. So what exactly is the virgin birth of the bible really? ************************************************************* I suspect the Engineer is trying to recreate his Eve, and all experiments are failed attempts. My observation was that both Charlie and Fifield were not turning into rage zombies but seemed to me mutating into malformed Engineers. They threw people around as though they had Engineer strength. So the whole point of creating life from their own DNA and the goo is to try to create something like a Engineer Eve. They may have tried to give a human female a small dose in an attempt to elevate a human female to an Engineer female. The results from planet to planet may all be the same, Xenos. This could explain why the Engineers have highlighted so many planets, they are in an endless pursuit to stave off their own mortality. This results in the worship of the xeno and the goo. The rough form of goo representing the experiment from the original Eve strain, and the refined form being the termination formula. David may realize all this from the inscriptions he can read. He then conducts his own experiment on Charlie and Shaw. I believe he may have revealed this to the Engineer who then promptly rips his head off. It is fun to speculate. I hope at least some of this postulating can fill in some gaps or help flesh things out. However we wont know if any of our ideas, theories and canon facts fit without a sequel. I just hope box office is good enough to get us some answers.

One more crackpot theory of mine, I suspect that it is possible that the landscape being terra formed in the opening is not Earth but LV-223. The clouds appear similar to the atmosphere of LV-223 later in the film. Scott also often says in interviews that the planet in the opening is not necessarily Earth. One of the read outs by the Prometheus crew states that atmosphere is being generated inside the temple. It was terra forming the planet. There is a primitive atmosphere on the moon, and that would also explain the presence of a worm in the chambers. It could have been brought in by the humans from outside the temple, but not from Prometheus which in all likelihood had none of those creatures inside of it due to decontamination procedures.

I have a theory (not unusual for this site, I know). The fact that the Engineers gave humans an "invitation" to this planet, which is most likely not their home planet, makes me believe that the entire setup on the planet was meant for the humans. Now, someone brought up the fact that there may have been a prophecy concerning the "Deacon", which is obviously some form of a Xenomorph, prompting the mural which seems to indicate, given the context of the picture, that the Xenomorph may be a "child" of some sort to the Engineers, their magnum opus. Could this mean that humans were meant to enter that room and get infected with whatever was in the ampules and later give birth to a new race of Xenomorphs? I don't know, but it seems semi-plausible to me...

[quote]I have a theory (not unusual for this site, I know). The fact that the Engineers gave humans an "invitation" to this planet, which is most likely not their home planet, makes me believe that the entire setup on the planet was meant for the humans. Now, someone brought up the fact that there may have been a prophecy concerning the "Deacon", which is obviously some form of a Xenomorph, prompting the mural which seems to indicate, given the context of the picture, that the Xenomorph may be a "child" of some sort to the Engineers, their magnum opus. Could this mean that humans were meant to enter that room and get infected with whatever was in the ampules and later give birth to a new race of Xenomorphs? I don't know, but it seems semi-plausible to me...[/quote] I agree with DoCats... In fact, I think that the mural is an oracle...it's not a depiction of the past but a prophecy for the future. I also feel that it is an oracle since these are prevalent elements in Greek Mythology which the movie is obviously strongly hinged on. And the fact that Shaw mentioned that the mural was changing might suggest that the future or the prophecy was changing due to their arrival.

@Iapetus : well, I can't divine the point you're trying to make, it seems to revolve around a distinction you're making between "facts" and "theories." You seem to think "facts" carry more truth than "theories." Everything that we take as "fact" gathers its truth because it is an element in some theory. Theories are overturned from time to time. "Facts" change accordingly. For instance, this entire thread is an extended conversation about the Caldow mural. For him, it was just an altar area that pays homage to Giger inside the "Head Room." "It is a relief sculpture hanging from the wall and has the impression of an alien form with flowing structure surrounding it." That was Caldow's intent. Does that mean the mural is used in just that way in the film? That's hard to say. Does Caldow's intended purpose invalidate other meanings that viewers may find in his mural. Do we need to precede every conjecture with, "Warning, Theory Coming, Beware!" My problem isn't with you, my problem is with your reasoning. It's flawed, self-regarding and circular. If you've been privy to unique conversations with the creative artists behind aspects of Prometheus, I suggest you write those up and share them with the forum. Most artists don't care to constrain the meanings of their works. Artistic works are "prevalent." They have many and multiple meanings and these meanings are worked out over long periods of time. They don't have a single meaning. I don't doubt that Caldow intended one thing when he conceived the mural. But is that how the mural is used in the movie? Doesn't Holloway say, "It's just another tomb?" Leading the audience to think there's something behind the mural. By the way, there was no prior tomb. So this misdirection of meaning changes the meaning of the mural. It seems to me that Ridley Scott is using the mural in an altogether different way than Caldow, just as did with Giger. Many fans around the net are calling those slits in the neck of the engineer's suit, "gills." Not just me. So, if you have some privy info you'd better hurry up with it.

@Wurnman : I saw the mural that way, too, as a birth scene. But of what?

I think the Alien (alpha xeno) in the mural is the creator of the engineer. The engineer is used to as a host to propigate the alpha xeno species. The alpha xeno in the mural seems to be connected to a machine which releases facehuggers to impregnate engineers (note the mural victims are bald). I also think the engineers found out that humans were used to breed facehuggers so they decided to wipe humans out in an attempt to gain freedom from the alpha xenos I also think that the derelict on LV 426 is a failed attempt by the engineers to design a different way for the alpha xeno to reproduce using humans as hosts. The failed result was a xeno which could use both engineers and humans to reproduce and was also hyper aggressive.

@Gahlaktus No, you are wrong ; facts, theories and beliefs are distinct things and Im not here to make your education about that, but you're the one asking me to back my claims. A fact is nothing else than the observable occurence of an instance, its interpretation is subjected to its context, to the observer and to the orbserver's context. However the fact itself will remain unaltered by changes in any of these external factors. A theory is a set of statements of which an associated set of direct consequences can be tested (experimentally or else) ; a test is always structured to prove a theory wrong as you cannot prove a theory right ; a theory is hence only 'corroborated/supported' by tests as long as it has not been proven wrong by a test. A belief is a set of statements which cannot be tested and hence lies out of the scientific realm (eg religion, art). You can find some of the most enlightening insights about that reading Karl Popper's work on the progress and structure of knowledge ([i]The Logic of Scientific Discovery[/i] and mostly [i]Conjectures and Refutations[/i]). Thomas Kuhn, comparable but maybe closer to your way of thinking with his 'scientific paradigm shifts', would however not get his facts, theories and beliefs mixed neither. exemple: [b]- Fact -[/b] [i]a white swan[/i] - the white feathers reflects all the wavelenghts of the spectrum. This holds true even in pitch black darkness where it can't be observed. [b]- Theory -[/b] [i]all swans are white[/i] - I can test that by looking at all swans, in theory. In pratice, I will only see the most extensive set of swans possible. If all of them happen to be white, my theory is not proven but holds true. However, the day a single black swan would be observed, the theory collapses. But the facts remain: white swans are still white. [see Thomas Huxley's inspiring quote: “Science is organized common sense where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact."] [b]- Belief -[/b] [i]swans are graceful[/i] - this cannot be tested as it is part of a personnal system of beliefs, which hence lies outside of science. Now regarding our off-topic discussion, facts are facts. Multiple facts and multiple meanings can coexist in art, which is out of the scientific realm. But even in art, when 2 facts/meanings are mutually exclusive, the authority of the source or the context will make one prevail. If nothing makes one prevalent, then it depends on what one chose to believe. That means that, even though your personal feeling about Prometheus has an undisputable value, I am allowed to chose and value Ridley Scott et al's opinion more than yours. Here, we are in the context of a film, directed by R. Scott and 'made' by dozens/hundreds of hands. In that context, the facts/meanings in and out of the film do not overlap in the least because that mural in and out of the film is not the same object, so I am not going to discuss who the artist made an hommage to when making it. In the film though, it has a single set of clearly defined and non-mutually exclusive meanings, which is what we are trying to elucidate here, supposedly. Again and again, no problem with you thinking what's on the engineer's neck are gills. I was just trying to get you and other people to change their way of speaking/doing because it reveals a lot about the way your mind works. And you just proved it repeatedly telling how your stuff was fact and not just a theory that you chose to support (with which I have no problem). See all that is not a big problem and I am responsible for driving this all so far off topic, but there is just so much I can take when so many people here obliterate logic and arrange stuff the way they want, so things look the way they like. Not saying you do that constantly but I just used this one as an example because it's the way the thread was taking and which made me post my first comment. Now, regarding the gills and other stuff and supposed 'privy' info you want me to share. You are the one not providing elements that non-ambiguously support your stuff. I have provided links to stuff dealing with neighbouring issues and that are 100% reliable as it is right out of the film crew's mouth. I too have come across other of your posts and thought they were well turned, but here you are turning passive-aggressive and your replies are insincere and plain full of bad-faith. I did not mean my remark personally and think things just got heated up. This is definitely my last off-topic post about that though, I have said all I think needed be told on my account. Now back to the film.

I'll ask again -- lol -- HOW did that Deacon fit inside the Engineer? It was way too big!! Did it come up through the floor? LOL!! That's my main issue with the Deacon...and I have the Deacon Blues thinking about it...lol!! Also, I think if there are Xeno eggs on LV-223, then they are behind that door with the mural...

I think the Deacon birth was the worst thing about the movie. There were moans and groans in the audience. Not only did it feel forced, it looked stupid. Not scary at all. Nothing like Giger's alien. And the pointy head was just goofy.