Derelict cargo hold or Silo

Wow Chris , I am sold . So the engineers are like the goa'uld from star gate in the sense that they go around stealing ancient technologie and acting like gods ?

Chris

Good post

I have always believed
That there is a higher 
Power controlling all things
And in prometheus this 
Higher power as in rteral life
Is sitting back watching all
Unfold before him and allowing 
Things only to go so far 
Before stepping in and stopping
It. Of course in such a way that
No one will ever say that it was
God who was behind all of this.
How did hitler overun europe so quickly without anybody noticing ? At the 
Crucial moment hitler attacked 
Russia in the middle of their winter
BIG MISTAKE. Why this basic mistake ?
How did the japanese attack pearl 
Harbour without the americans 
Knowing ? Without the abovementioned
Hitler would have won easily hands
Down. Because america. Would not 
Have entered the war. Add to this that 
The allies were finally getting the
Better of the u boats and the intro
Duction of the P 51 d mustang with
Its incredible range.to escort bombers
Attacking heartland germany. After 
6 million jeews died and another 11 
Million people dies out of the blue the world catches up. 

Its like jon von nueumann who vrated
The basic comcept for the computer 
Where the instruction set is stored 
The ram. It happened at exactly the 
Right time . 

What I'd any these things happened a
Year or 2 later or earlier would the 
World be the place it is today ?

Indeed chris - there is a higher 
Power at work here.

This is prometheus 's true 
beauty- it shows this quality 
of the universe like 2001 did . 

I hope the sequels rivals this 
aspect of p1

I reviewed Kane descending into the egg area and he says "a cave a cave of some sorts". Then I looked at the curvilinear sides as he is being hoisted down into the structure as well as when he is walking through each of the rows of eggs. This curved space is defined for a space ship. Space ships come in just about any shape and size; however, when it comes to the kind that engineers travel in then this underneath area is a match for their space craft down to metallic rounded structures. One thing clearly stands out. Structurally the same metallic elements are repeated parts of the structure of the space craft.

We can logically think then that Kane is in part of the ship. We have to always keep in context that these original space jockeys were to be over 20 feet tall. It is also clear that Kane as he is going down into the structure is going down into another part of the same structure as the space ship.

Why would an Engineers/Space Jockeys have their space craft exactly the same as the Alien underground chamber? Makes no sense that these two different things would be the same if
this were not part of the engineer space craft.

Back to what BigDave said about the scale issues. I am now  of the opinion that Kane is in a lower part of the space craft and we are just dealing with a technical issue of size and scale. We have to think these space jockeys could easily climb up the wall or walk through this thing and the structure around them would not be so big around them. For a twenty foot tall being could you imagine the size of the equipment they would use if it had to go through this area of the egg chamber.  I am sure that they have things that they use that are much larger than they are tall hence the need for a larger curved structure underneath the navigation control room.

If the ship is on another structure, which is possible, it is on something built by engineers or the who or what ever controls the engineers.

I would like to comment about the origin of the alien as it pertains to the engineers. I think the engineers made the Alien as they made us.

It is evident that our DNA matches theirs. We come from them. The Prometheus movie clearly defines this. Why they would need to create us, evolve us, come visit us and tell us where they are on a world where they are making weapons of mass destruction may be revealed in Paradise.

We have to surmise that in order to make a weapon powerful enough to attack whatever is their intended target they would need the Alien to be evolved itself in a way so that it could contend with any enemy capacities. We test weapons on many things before we use them I am sure they are doing the same. I think they uses us and the Alien as a large scale test to see how well the Alien can defeat us and how we will respond to it in many different environments. It is not enough to fight an enemy with what you may have on hand at the current moment but what you will need to ultimately win the war.

The race of aliens that the engineers come from may be in a war that has already lasted thousands of years. We are always trying to compare what we know or have done in our history and apply it to this situation. The Alien is a nano-mech-bio-weapon. It combines with an entire planets ecosystem and takes over every living thing on that planet. In space it is equally as dangerous. It is not the kind of thing you want on your space craft.

We are missing a large piece of the story here and it has been for far too long.
A lot of people on this site know exactly what I am referring to when I say nano mechanization as opposed to an organic based nano function that is made of almost exclusively organic elements. Nano Mech as it applies to the Aliens composition is not primarily based on organic elements and so it can be quite complex to even try to extrapolate how this thing is a machine at the nano sized level of it's construction. The Alien skull that we see in the predator ship in Requiem should have never been shown because the Alien does not have a skeletal bone skull in Aliens VS. Predators. A pred slices clean all the way through one of the Alien heads and there is no skull there at all. So even when they made these movies they were not in real agreement as to what the Alien was or is made out of and by who.

It is difficult to keep track of all of this and frustrating as well. There has to be good consistency in a movie or you do not know what to think.

There is something interesting in Prometheus that I noticed which might be related back on our topic...when Dave goes off on his own to inspect the area where the orb picked up a life sign, the tunnel that comes from the juggernaut is biomechanically altered.  We can see on the 3d scans that this tunnel leads to the temple which is not formed with the same amount of detail.  We don't see the half way point but I'm assuming that what ever made that tunnel came from the ship also made everything else.  Thinking back to the derelict there is a tube coming from the ship into the ground as the Nostromo crew are climbing to go into the orifice entry way.  Perhaps the ship is a creature thats alive and has made its way down? Puting it's head under the sand like the rest of us.

It's not meant to be explainable. It is the vision of artist's, one of them being a surrealist and one of the best at that.

The interior of the egg silo is of the same design as that of the pilot chamber, we can agree on that, yes? So that means that both the silo and the pilot chamber have been designed by the same hand/s.

The silo (size wise) is definately out of proportion to the derelict has a whole! So, Unless the derelict is like the Tardis from Dr Who, there is no way that the silo would be a part of that ship! Rationally thinking of course (not artistically thinking.)

However, after watching numerous Alien documentaries and reading the Alien book, i can say with all confidence, that originally, they intended the egg silo to reside in a seperate piramid which had nothing to do with the Space Jockey's. But, because of budget reasons they made it a part of the ship. So they basically changed the story to suit the budget, (fortunately, it worked!) 

So, how can it be explained rationally?.. It can't, unless the viewer suspends their disbelief and realise that it is the work of artists.

The silo is meant to be a part of the derelict and that's the way we should view it. It is just a scaling mishap that everyone involved didn't think would be a problem to the viewer.

They didn't count on us "cult followers" pulling them up on it!

Whether or not you agree with my explination, one thing is for sure, the interior design of the egg silo is the same as the interior design of the pilot chamber. Therefor, both have been designed by the same hand/s.

I'll just add this one thing. If Ridley ever did decide to explain the egg silo as being designed and built by a different lifeform to whatever designed/built the derelict, then he would be doing himself a injustice. He would be lying to himself, because he is all about art and design.

He once said in an interview, that he is essentially a designer and if he wouldn't have been a film maker, he would have been an interior designer.

That's how he makes films, he is all about the look, the aesthetic, and i can confidently assume, that whenever he has watched ALIEN he cannot seperate the derelict from the egg silo. 

Let me draw u back to the cavern idea...it works logically trust me. One thing you have missed it's that in aliens there was no engineer building the walls in the colony after infestation so it was the aliens building structures like this cavern. And the derelict design is actually subtlety different to the alien walls and again the aliens could of altered the derelict in alien. One main idea is that the alien learns from it's host so it's also bound to make similar structures.

Then we have the fact that any number of things could of happened the ship crashed on a cavern that the aliens restructured or it was already made by the engineers or it was discovered by the ship and the ship never took off properly etc etc......I still watch alien as a stand alone film in which this space jockey (not engineer) found the race and was studying it in the caverns below but it got infested and died will trying to take off - and the aliens lived on for a long time down below but moved on or died else were like Prometheus...I keep it slightly open as well my mind as really we cannot know exactly what happened of course.

Yes I'm in the camp of the Xenos come from an older race with higher intelligence and they are off shots as such...children as such and soon we will get to see the parent and it's not going to be friendly.

@Dj; The walls of the derelict are made up of symetrical, horizontal, parallel bones. BONES. The walls of the egg silo are made up of symetrical, horizontal, parallel bones.

The Giger Aliens do not secrete resin in that design. In Aliens, it just looks like a secreted mess. Take a close look at the interior of the pilot chamber, egg silo and the "hive" from Aliens, they just don't look the same, apart from the colour and texture.

Not the same DESIGN.

I also remind you of what Ridley had to say about the Space jockey and his cargo of eggs:

We all know that Ridley saw it as a battle ship or bomber. That this giant creature was going somewhere, to do something, not very nice with his cargo of bio-weapons.

Then there is this quote: Cameron wrote in Starlog magazine, “the derelict pilot (space jockey, big dental patient, etc.) became infected en route to somewhere and set down on the barren planetoid to isolate the dangerous creatures, setting up the warning beacon as his last act … Perhaps he was a volunteer or a draftee on the hazardous mission of bio-isolating these organisms. Perhaps he was a military pilot, delivering the alien eggs as a bio-weapon in some ancient interstellar war humans know nothing of, and got infected inadvertently.”

So, both Ridley and Cameron believed that the eggs were the Space Jockey's cargo.

THAT IS THE IDEA.

Basically, I agree with everything Necronom4 wrote. This is a case of dedicated fans reading way too much into a minor design detail.

Please, lets not bring the pyramid concept into this. They changed it before they started shooting. When they built the egg silo, the pyramid idea had already been discarded, therefore one can only assume the place Kane descends to is part of the Derelict.

There is no point bringing any other movie than Alien and Prometheus to this discussion. When Alien was made, Aliens wasn't on anybody's mind. And for all we know, Prometheus owes to Alien only.

We know LV-223 Engineers park their ships in underground structures connected to temples. The whole tunnel system ran underground, and the inside of the temple had rooms that were like the inside of the ships/linked to the ship.

If the silo exists it's older than the temples. Since the eggs are depicted in the mural.  Ridley confirmed the events that happened on LV-426 precede the outbreak on LV-223. Our Deacon comes after the eggs.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that the Egineers with the eggs have underground tunnels on LV 426.  Ones that they park their ships on top of, different style, no hangers that open up. The frequent storms on LV-426 + vocanic activity might have completely changed the landscape, eroded visible signs on the surface of the other entrances. We see that the skull on the temple is already being worn down..Maybe Ash saw something in the rocks that almost looked like a pattern and kept it to himself...Like a Giant Space Jockey face/figure/statue hidden in the rocks.

We almost have to go back in time, or get a flashback, to answer the questions about the eggs..Quantum mechanics is actually starting to predict that our consciousness moves into other dimensions when we die...The series could bring up many questions and loop back to the eggs at the very end..

David says "No man needs nothing"...the energy for the bigbang/universe might come from somewhere...This could be what Weyland is really driven by, deep down he cares about the big questions he used to manipulate Shaw.  He wanted immortality to live to answer where they do come from, where we are going, "what happens when we die"... Even when we find out what happened on LV-426, we don't know where the very first alien came from.

In the Weyland timeline they brought up M-theory, or many worlds theory.  I'm actually thinking we'll see Ravel and Chance again, on the "other side" of how Weyland travels through space and time...Also, think about the age old question: which came first, the classic xeno or the egg? There were either Aliens in existence, or the Engineers created the eggs/Alien. The eggs originally came from somewhere even further back in time.. Something created those eggs and something placed them in the cargo bay, or silo.

The HBO show True Detective is hinting at M-theory as well.  M-theory predicts that time might be cyclical in nature; that the conscious mind only perceives time to be linear, arranges it linearly, .like some ancient cultures believed.  Janek is one of the few pilots who knows. He had to comfort/trick their minds into thinking time was still moving the same, high ranking marine/pilot policy...  Time is still moving, just not in the ways the crew was led to believe. The mission time David lists off is how long they've been traveling through space and time to reach their destination. Time is like a spheroid.  Weyland is a law only to himself.  There's a bridge of space-time that connects his mind to the younger body sitting on the Yacht on the "other side" in the memory of his past...He was a head of his time...He's linked to his younger body through the subconscious and returns there after he crosses the abyss.

He has to pass through the Weyland memorial to reach 2054 and his timeline.. Where people thought he died. He's been between life and death since then...was only tricking his brain back to life. Unnaturally extended his life, and thus altered his personal timeline.  Wrecked the natural order of things..Vickers knows when you enter hyper sleep you might die, you enter a state between life and death. Being woken up means you made it...All of them have secretly been brought back to life already. There are two alternate versions of what happened in Prometheus, and sometimes Shaw's ring disappears, sometimes the cross reappears before David gives it back. They were edited together in this timeline.  

Wow, great comments all! While I respects everyones ideas re Ship versus Cavern or building, I have re watched and feel that if Ridley worked this back story into Paridise it would work perfectly. If a small spray of acid ate through 3 decks on the Nostromo imagine if a large puddle of blood ate its way through The Derelict, breaking through the hull and into an Engineers complex counter sunk beneath the surface of LV426. Its logical, more logical than  Tardis type mis calculation of size. Ridley probably filmed the Cain lowering scene before the Silo concept was abandoned. This could have simply been an outpost for the Engineers. An outpost destroyed by an accident or sabotage caused by the spilling of the Black Goo....

This could be the original outbreak and perhaps 2000 years later its what the Murals on LV423 is based on. Maybe the Xeno in the centre of the Mural is a warning to the Engineers of what can happen when things go wrong......

Brego

@HiveMinded

You pretty much said what i was going to say as far as the Silo etc...

Look the idea originally was that there was going to be a separate place where these Eggs was and the Space Jockey was taking samples to their ship....

Now they changed it to be that the Eggs was now in a Cargo Hold on the ship, that was the idea in Alien the ship had a Cargo of Eggs.......

As we get Prometheus we now see these Space Jockeys are indeed Humanoids who played a hand in our creation but also have played a part in experiments and maybe creation of the Xeno, or indeed creation of Organism from the Xenos origins.

But yes the size does not quite add up, but i dont think Ridley would have thought you would have noticed, you see the idea was for how vast the Ship was supposed to look, it was meant to be massive and the first shot of the crew of Nostramo walking into the Ships Pilot Chamber gave a sense of a huge area like double the size of scale Prometheus one showed us, and indeed our Space Jockey they wanted to be 26ft but the scale they pulled off in that shot was closer to 21ft.

Then the Kane in the Egg Chamber was meant to merit this shot of the Space Jockey, you see they intended him to be 20ft+ and indeed more close to 25ft in which case if we assumed the Jockey was 25ft compared to the Pilot Chamber and then looked at the Egg Chamber then the size difference is actually not that badly off..

However in reality  the Space Jockey Prop was 16ft Tops and we could see in the close up shots the size of the Humans to the Space Jockey meant he was like 15ft or less. which if he is 15ft then that means the whole scale of the room is thus 60% of what they had the idea for....

Now the Egg Chamber while looked big it did not look way too big for the scale they wanted with the Pilot Chair being some 25-30ft....

The problem comes from when we compare the close up shot where they examine the Space Jockey and then as Kane is lowered down the hole and we see the far away shot, as shown in the OP... this shows us that the Egg Chamber would have to be half the size to logically fit with the Ship and Pilot room, but when we consider that the plan was for the Space Jockey to had been nearly double the height he was then that scale is plausible.

Well when you really look at the first shot as in OP.... then again its a scale mistake, as when we go to the other shots up close you can see that the Egg Chamber is like at least twice the size in the first long range shot.... same mistakes again as with the Jockey.

But the idea indeed was this chamber was part of the ship, even the comments from Ridley and Cammeron regarding the fate of the Space Jockey go on to say that this ship was a Carrier Cargo ship and its Cargo was Bio Weapons and the Space Jockey simply somehow got infected and then had to Qaurantine the Ship and send off a SOS...

This gives us the problem when we see the Scale of the Chamber etc.

So yes having a serperate Cave Cargo Hold on LV 426 does explain the size difference, it could be a under ground storage facility, where these Engineers either Keep Samples they take from LV 426 to LV 223 to test and re-engineer.  Or where they take the results of their tests on LV 223 or even place Urns on the Ship to then drop off to this underground storage facility.

This works very well, the walls of the ship and silo are the same as they are created by the same race and its LV 426 simply has a underground storage facility just how LV 223 had a underground Juggernaught Hangers etc.

Ridley as of Prometheus has kind of changed his story on the Juggernaught, by saying the ship maybe never crashed as such.... and he latter said that something had evolved in that Cargo Hold.

This could imply the Ship carried Urns to LV 426 and placed then down into a under ground bunker of sorts but they had evolved... The problem with this would be that the Mural shows us a Xeno Egg.

This means they knew about the Xeno and Egg before LV 223 outbreak but as Ridley said the Derelict had been on LV 426 for hundreds of years within the outbreak on LV 223 some 2000 years ago, it would be safe to assume 200 Years prior.

so there is no reason that these Engineers had either placed something underground on LV 426, that latter when they went to drop some more off, the ones from before had now evolved into Eggs... i.e the Goo had reacted with something within the underground storage container.

Or they had indeed got Eggs from somewhere else and placed them under ground.

These would thus allow the situation to make sense...

FINALLY.... Here is my logical explanation for it all....

Ok we see that of we go the whole route of LV 426 having a under ground storage facility, this would explain why the architecture looks the same as the Derelict.

Now these Engineers was conducting experiments and maybe they placed the Urns or something else down into storage....

When they then latter went to drop off another shipment of what ever, or going to check on their storage facility...  The Space Jockey was in for a shock as the Cargo they was storing had evolved into these Eggs, the Engineer may had been curious and then he got infected.

Set off a SOS...

Latter some more Engineers came down and maybe they discovered the Organism that bust from the Space Jockey and/or discovered the Eggs but took more care as they had known of the warning from the Space Jockey who may had been oblivious to the hazard bellow.

These Engineers then took samples of what was in that Cargo Hold or even what burst from the Space Jockey back to LV 223 and over the next few hundred years spent many experiments and time on the Organism.  Until the outbreak.

They could go that route to explain away the size of the Egg Silo, it would fit with everything that went on in Prometheus and Alien....  this would however have to mean we now have to forget Ridleys comments about the Derelict carrying a Cargo off Eggs  or maybe that it never carried quite as many as was in the Egg Chamber.

But then what Ridley says off film is and has never been shown on film, we have never seen the Derelict crash, we just assume and Ridley said that was the case.

But Ridley can go a U-Turn on that and only then what he shows after becomes canon, such as we now have to accept the Space Jockey is related to the Engineers, where as before we pondered is it a Skeleton or a Space Suit and inside how Human or Alien would they look.

The only problem with going this logical route is the Ship..

It does not look like it had landed safely on top of a Silo..... its a bit bent backwards...  but then as Hiveminded said, maybe after storms and thousands of years and can we even rule out seismic activity could have caused it to not stand in the same position it did when it first landed?

If we look at the Derelict Prop...

Now i drawn around where logically the Orrey/Control room would bee in Green and then the Cargo Hold in Orange if in Prometheus they got the scale better and showed the Hologram image of them walking along the tunnels if they was like in the image above in Red.

Then there would be no confusion regarding the layout of the ship...

As you can see from the above Derelict the ship is near the same as the Jugernaught below.. But you notice the internal layout and where you see the crew walk to the Control room (Yellow Diamond Markers) then logically there is no place for a Cargo Hold...

The other thing is it takes some time to walk to the Control Room in both Alien and Prometheus so its a guess to where the entrance they used to get into the ship was in Prometheus, In Alien they enter by the same openings that Shaw leaves with Davids decapitated body.  Now this method does not take so long to get to and they would have to move up to the Control room, or down ins Shaws Case. 

But now as you see, in Alien they entered this area and so there is no way at all that they would have fitted the cargo hold under the control room.

Unless we ignore Prometheus, and we then look at Alien but again, the crew was puzzled to the hole and how it contained some kind of cave.... Well they should not be so suprised if they had to walk up some kind of vast shaft from those entry 3 holes to the Pilot Room.

Hmm interesting thoughts Dave, it makes sense regarding Ridley's comments that the eggs "or something" were originally a cargo of urns that rapidly became unstable and evolved into organic, leathery eggs. Temperature plays a big role and perhaps this was a time before the engineers realised proper temp protocols in the storage of these bioweapons. Apparently Dark Horse are working with Ridley on the Prometheus comics and are going to answer some questions pertaining to much of this.

Well the Urns changing into Eggs is a bit odd as how does the Goo mutate urns into the Eggs when we see no evidence of Urns in Alien..

But ridley did not say the ship was carrying Urns not from Prometheus he just said the Derelict had Cargo that Evolved.... now the Eggs evolved? nope that dont make sense.. The Urns Evolved? Maybe but what of the Urns?

Nope i would suggest the Engineers used some other method to store the Ampoules and these got contaminated and evolved into Eggs, that are stored on LV 426, this would explain how does a Space Jockey get infected with his own Cargo.

If he went down to the storage place and what he found was a surprise then he would be caught off guard... 

What i mean is take Gremlins, when Billy fed the Mogwai by accident when he came home and saw the Cocoons he was surprised as he never knew this is how they would evolve.

The Space Jockey could came to what ever they was storing and saw it evolved into Eggs and he was like surprised and intrigued by it and curious but he then got infected by what had Evolved.

Latter Engineers had either taken samples of the Eggs or Xeno to re-engineer into the more stable and secure Urns or they simply placed the Ampoules into Urns rather than a old method as it proved the old method of storage was prone to contamination.

@Neuro yes I know about outside of the films but like I said I like to go by what's in the films and this: http://www.scifimoviezone.com/AliensScript19.shtml looks allot like not only the inside of the derelict in alien but also the silo or caverns below in alien it totally makes sense that if given enough time the alien could of made it. We have not seen how far they evolve over time and how much they can be different I mean look at the different buildings humans make and so you can say it's possible aliens did some or all of the work. Adding also that the Xenos absorb it's hosts traits.

Anyway like I said I like to keep it open sj made it all or alien or sj then alien... and the sj definitely found the alien and was studying it thinking it could control it and it got beaten by it crashed and set of beacon...the underground part is a cavern built by sj or decorated by aliens etc. ...hopefully some of this will be in Prometheus 2 unless it's crap then I'll have to try to forget the new parts :-  .