moon landing....do you believe the conspiracy theories or are they just a load o

[img]http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/mcsnapshot/SCI%20FI/moon.jpg[/img]

[i]1 - you are forgetting, that this event was not in a country such as Russia or the USA.[/i] Relevance? [i]2 - Also forgetting this is one of the oldest actually fotographed UFO incidents that was widely spread all over the world... before the so called USA's "Roswell incident" or the Russian "Roswell" or the brazilian "Roswell"[/i] Ignored my last post, did you? [i]3- True, they have. And Portugal was not an exception. At that time, Portugal was called "A Nação Fidelíssima" [the highly Faithful Nation], remembering that Portugal was always a Catholic Nation with very high influence in the Church and vice-versa.[/i] So, by your own admission, it is [u]possible[/u] that the Church might have committed pious fraud in this case? [i]4- No, the State Police was. State Police as in Pre-Fascism. Pre-Fascism as in "shut up and do what I say or I'll shoot you in the head and kill your entire family".[/i] So, if the Church had immediately intervened, and Portugal was a faith state, which means the State Police was the Church's muscle, doesn't that sound like the Church might have fabricated this? [i]You should know by now what that means.[/i] Pious fraud?

You have to ask yourself, why would the Moon Landing be a Hoax. It is a pop cultural thing only possible due to the disbelief in Governments. However this disbelief is credited because those same Governments seem to have little interest in it's People's well being and show some lack of transparency in their actions. This, in turn, makes the People doubt about the Governments intentios towards them and the most mediatic Government's actions are seen as doubtful. The more that doubt about it's own Government, the more it becomes a popular reality. A Conspiracy feeling makes it's way through all sorts of media and the doubt about the Goverments intentions is perpetuated. However, the doubt about some Governments are rather realistic for it seems some Governments have no interest in it's People's well being and operate through lack of transparency and fear mongering. It's one step away from true tirany. And this is even more true when those same Governments act against not only it's own People but against other Nations as well.

It would be more difficult to hoax it and keep everyone quiet about it than to send someone there.

However, I do have 2 questions about the UFO business: When Governments all over the world are releasing their documentation about the UFO reality with no fear of their peoples reaction towards it, howcome some other Governments seem reluctant to do the same? Why would some Governments be fearful of releasing their own documents while others are not? p.s.: and I mean those that are truly UFOs, not the military ones. p.s.: this ties in to what I said in the first reply to this post.

Because the unreleased documents may pose a security risk. A lot of sightings are either aircraft, their ammunition with tracer lights or satellite launches. The fewer details about military operations, the better. [i]and I mean those that are truly UFOs, not the military ones.[/i] How do you know that they are truly UFOs?

Hercules: We had a very well known UFO case here in May the 13th of 1917. it was called "the miracle of the Sun" That was before any military stealth aircraft ever launched. [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LBf69RxFwxI/T6_Hts9d3FI/AAAAAAAAH98/btwXXxvreYY/s1600/Multidao-na-Cova-da-Iria.jpg[/img] It was also refered to as "Fatima's Miracle", but even the Church - though canonizing the 3 pastors that were "visited" - already claimed that there might have been another force in action rather than that of "Holly Mary". And that is the "truly UFO" documentation that I'm refering to. People still believe in Fatima's miracle as a "true" miracle, and we have at that same spot a worldy known sanctuary called "Santuário de Fátima" [Fatima's Sanctuary] where pilgrims from all over the world go to pay a visit. However, the same people that go there also believe there was something else going on, and some people from that time was alive till some years ago to actually report what they saw. One man that witnessed that event, and a local resident, said bluntly: "It could be the Holly Mary speaking to those children there, but one thing I know is that 3km away from that place the sun was in it's normal position in the sky and in that location the Sun was diferent and closer to touch the ground."

You do realize that anecdotal evidence cannot stand on its own? ;)

A quick answer (or joke) : If the USA president during the event has been J F Kennedy, i would have lot less doubt that with the Nixon presidence. Nixon was one of the bigger lier that our beautiful planet has to support, with to much repercussion on all the human cultures and nations. I think that the US has landed on moon, but maybe later. The URSS only landed on moon with robot (remoted little vehicules), the engineer responsable of the URSS robots was later recruted by the NASA to plan the Mars Viking operation (about the landing module).

Hercules: what do you mean by anedoctal evidence? The fact that there are tons of photographs of that event and the peoples report? The fact that the church imidialtly intervene via state authorities? The fact that at that time people couldn't open their mouths for fear of getting shot dead? Please explain. p.s.: In the foto I added in the last reply, you can see the people from then, at the actual spot, at that right time, with the actual Sun in the background. So... what other Sun were they looking at?

[I]what do you mean by anedoctal evidence?[/I] You know: "He said this. So did she." [i]The fact that there are tons of photographs of that event and the peoples report?[/i] Not to mention that there were pictures of fairies back then, too. [i]The fact that the church imidialtly intervene via state authorities?[/i] Like the Church had never used pious fraud... [i]The fact that at that time people couldn't open their mouths for fear of getting shot dead?[/i] The Virgin Mary was packing heat? Damn!

Hercules: 1 - you are forgetting, that this event was not in a country such as Russia or the USA. 2 - Also forgetting this is one of the oldest actually fotographed UFO incidents that was widely spread all over the world... before the so called USA's "Roswell incident" or the Russian "Roswell" or the brazilian "Roswell" 3- True, they have. And Portugal was not an exception. At that time, Portugal was called "A Nação Fidelíssima" [the highly Faithful Nation], remembering that Portugal was always a Catholic Nation with very high influence in the Church and vice-versa. 4- No, the State Police was. State Police as in Pre-Fascism. Pre-Fascism as in "shut up and do what I say or I'll shoot you in the head and kill your entire family". You should know by now what that means. If you still don't, don't worry, you'll live to see it, by the way things are going.

Calm down guys, and remember you are out of subject on the post.

We're already calm.

Relevance: 1 - Each country has it's own mentality, wich is based on it's People, it's History, and it's Governance. We have nearly a millenia of History in our shoulders, other Nations have an even longer History. That means that the mentality over that períod has changed and developed. The relatioship with what is known and unknown has developed as well. It's called experience. 2 - No I did not ignore it. But if you are able to see a fairy in that pic, let me know, 'cause it wasn't taken by children with fairy tale children books drawings. It was taken by the local news reporters, and other reporters that came, including from Spain [which would have their own similar phaenomena later on]. 3 - I believe they did. The case in point being, that 3 children were contacted by an entity that was described by themselves as an "angel" and the other people that were there witnessing all that was hapening in the sky, and what was hapening to the children [they were prostrated in the ground with their heads tilted back, with eyes wide open] corroborated with the children's point of view. Throw in a local priest that was scared to death and called the authorities, the authorities not knowing what to do contacted the Holly Church and they were asked to intervene till they got there in person. But, by then, the news coverage was already being done, fotografs were being taken and that was that. Unfortunately, the Church perpetuated the "miracle" stance and made a profit with it. Do you think "Sanctuaries" are buid just because? 4 - The Church didn't "fabricate" it. The Church took advantage of it. A diferent thing. 5 - no, indescriminated death by your Government.

Well, I think that man landing on the moon is a fact, since some recent photos revealed retroreflectors. I, however, am not sure that they landed there in 1969, and the photos they took are actual real. They landed there, they might, however, have not landed in the Appollo 11 mission. The question here is not if the moon landings are real, it is if the Apollo 11 is real, I think...

I don't think it's hoax. ISRO research center here in india (who worked behind [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakesh_Sharma]this man[/url]) had few scientists who collaborated with plenty of other scientists from other countries for the moon expeditions. I dont think goverment of any country hides anything unless ofcourse they have military advantage over things. CERN's research is pretty much open with access to every particle physicist in the world and also there are commercial involvement in such projects. One thing I did heard from all the ISRO folks is that there is not much value ( in terms of fuel etc type of resource) from Moon. So it's neglected. Mars is next in the list because there are chances of natural resources on that planet and it also has environment to sustain life.

India is also reach in UFO lore.

Yeah but Indians don't believe in mystical aliens and spaceships. Indian belief in UFO is more religious, I mean gods taking people to paradise after death or when they are impressed with the works of individual towards humanity. Hinduism is like matrix religion, zen stuff and all.

[i]1 - Each country has it's own mentality, wich is based on it's People, it's History, and it's Governance. We have nearly a millenia of History in our shoulders, other Nations have an even longer History. That means that the mentality over that períod has changed and developed. The relatioship with what is known and unknown has developed as well. It's called experience.[/i] So they have experience in creating state-sanctioned hoaxes of supernatural phenomena? You're right: Portugal is different than the US and the former USSR. [i]2 - No I did not ignore it. But if you are able to see a fairy in that pic, let me know, 'cause it wasn't taken by children with fairy tale children books drawings. It was taken by the local news reporters, and other reporters that came, including from Spain [which would have their own similar phaenomena later on].[/i] The point which you (may have deliberately) missed is that there were hoaxed pics from back in that day... [i]3 - I believe they did. The case in point being, that 3 children were contacted by an entity that was described by themselves as an "angel" and the other people that were there witnessing all that was hapening in the sky, and what was hapening to the children [they were prostrated in the ground with their heads tilted back, with eyes wide open] corroborated with the children's point of view. Throw in a local priest that was scared to death and called the authorities, the authorities not knowing what to do contacted the Holly Church and they were asked to intervene till they got there in person. But, by then, the news coverage was already being done, fotografs were being taken and that was that. Unfortunately, the Church perpetuated the "miracle" stance and made a profit with it. Do you think "Sanctuaries" are buid just because?[/i] So, you mention this case to support your claim that there are "truly UFOs" [your words} that the government keeps secret and you are dismissing your case as a hoax? [i]4 - The Church didn't "fabricate" it. The Church took advantage of it. A diferent thing.[/i] But you just said that you believed it was a fabrication by the Church. If anything, can you honestly discredit the notion that the Church might have approached these children and instructed them on what to say and do or that if the children were sincere in their beliefs that they might have misinterpreted what they had seen? [i]5 - no, indescriminated death by your Government.[/i] Yeah, huh. *yawn* Now, getting back to this hoaxing by the government(s): How do you know that the unreleased documents are about "truly UFOs", especially if you hadn't read them?