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Ultimate Plot holes/questions and answers debate thread

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Engineering

MemberOvomorphJune 14, 2012
********THIS THREAD IS A WORK IN PROGRESS******** These are truncated interpretations of forum members "plot holes" or unaswered questions along with answers and explainations from various members... 1)[u]Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/u] 2)[u]Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct?[/u] [b]He's a multi-quadrillionaire or mega-rich for that matter. Money is no object and immortality is his only desire.[/b] 3)[u]Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs?[/u] [b]In the film someone says that her beliefs are incorrect because the Engineers created humans. She answers with "Yes, but who made them?" She has her own beliefs that are obviously based in Christianity but every Christian does not believe or worship in the same way.[/b] 4)[u]Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons?[/u] [b]He was in cryo to preserve the short time he had to live. As far as why he hid it from the crew perhaps he's an eccentric multi-quadrillionaire who likes to mess with people's heads. Or, if the comany and share holders believe he's dead he could be doing it for some business reasons.[/b] 5)[u]Why is Vickers being Weyland's daughter kept a secret?[/u] [b]Vickers being Weyland's daughter is kept secret from the audience. Never in the film does it suggest that this fact is kept from the crew. She has a different last name but that doesn't mean that the last name was made up. Maybe a married name or she kept her mother's last name.[/b] 6)[u]Why does Vickers even go on the mission when it's against her best intrest in regards to taking over Weyland Industries? It's not in her best intrest if other "sharks" are on earth plotting to take over the company while she's on the mission.[/u] [b]For one Weyland is not dead so the company is still his. Also, Vickers obviously has daddy issues. Her father prefers a replicant to her. Her father is dying. She expresses that in her opinion the mission is a joke and will not be successful therefore she believes her father is going to die on the mission. She looks at the mission as her last chance to redeem herself or win her father's love away from David.[/b] 7)[u]Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research?[/u] [b]What medical research is going to uncover immortality?[/b] 8)[u]Why does Weyland think he can appreciate or understand immortality or the Engineers reasoning and capabilities when he himself states that his creatioin, David, cannot appreciate the immortality he has been given because he has no soul?[/u] [b]Again, he's an eccentric, multi-quadrillionaire. He created another lifeform. He also obviously thinks he is on equal footing with the gods or Engineers. He is incredibly self rightious. And, unlike David, he has a soul.[/b] 9)[u]Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping?[/u] [b]They never go into any area of the pyramid that has not been mapped.[/b] 10)[u]Why would the crew remove their helmets when they admit that, though breathable, it could still be dangerous?[/u] [b]Once they find out it's breathable they never say anything about a chance of it still being dangerous. In fact, someone states that the air is, in fact, cleaner than earth's air.[/b] 11)[u]Why does David shine a flashlight at a hologram?[/u] [b]He's in a very dark place and has a flashlight in his hand. When most people are in the dark and hear or see something moving they usually will shine said flashlight in that direction.[/b] 12)[u]How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups?[/u] [b]The pup readout was loading to the display on the ship, Fifield had a piece of the equipment that showed them the readout however when he and Millburn decided to leave rather near their point of entry he had to leave the equipment with the crew who were staying so they could continue to find their way. Fifield and Millburn being men both think they can find their own way and don't bother contacting Janek for directions. Then the storm hits knocking out contact.[/b] 13)[u]Why are geologist Fifield and biologist Millburn not interested in the uber-important descoveries that the team make in the pyramid?[/u] [b]It's possible that they are too frightened to care about their careers at that point. Or better yet they are interested but are smart enough to hang back until the pyramid is found to be safe and without threat.[/b] 14)[u]Why is Millburn stupid enough to try to pet the hammerpeede?[/u] [b]Perhaps his inquisitive, biologist nature that was talked about being absent in question #36 has finally got the better of him. Also, Fifield had just showed him that he had marajuana in his resperator. This could explain why Fifield is super paranoid as well as why Millburn wants to pet the hammerpeede. Fifield is paranoid because he's stoned and Millburn is trying to show off in order to impress Fifield so he'll share the marajuana.[/b] 15)[u]How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them?[/u] 16)[u]Why doesn't the crew ask David to translate Engineer writing when they find out there's a contagion loose?[/u] [b]When they find out Holloway's infected is the first sign of a contagion. At this point they are in the pyramid and find Millburn's body and see that Fifield is missing. They also see the hammerpeede scuttle off which scares them as well. The sh*t has hit the fan at this point.They don't think about or have time to ask David to translate anything as they are trying to hurry and get to the Prometheus to help Holloway. Besides, David is off on his own mission at the orrey in the Juggernaut.[/b] 17)[u]Why does Janek go to have sex with Vickers?[/u] [b]Seriously??? All joking aside, Janek is the captain of the ship. He's not responsible for anything scientific which is what the mapping of the pyramid is. Also, at this point he has told Fifield and Millburn to hunker down and not bugger each other and all is quiet. Finally, at this point, there has been no threat. Just what he believes to be glitches with the pups.[/b] 18)[u]Why does nobody get angry at Janek for dereliction of duty?[/u] [b]See above answer.[/b] 19)[u]Why does David infect Holloway for no reason?[/u] [b]Before David infects Holloway he has a conversation with Weyland who is in cryo. When David leaves he comes upon Vickers lurking in the corridors. She askes David what Weyland said. "He said to try harder" he tells her. Weyland wants to find out what the "black goo" is capable of without being the guinea pig. Could it make him immortal? Could it make him morph into an alien? Could it give him the runs? He tells David to infect someone. David picks the person he likes the least of the crew. [/b] 20)[u]Why does infected Holloway act ok and return to the temple putting his girlfriend and crew in danger?[/u] [b]Holloway has no idea he's infected. He dosn't know what David did. All that happened before they left for the pyramid was what he saw in his eye in the mirror. He could have been thinking he was seeing things due to cryo or space travel or whatever. He didn't display any pain until they were in the ampule room and at that point he asked Shaw if what was going on was bad.[/b] 21)[u]How does David know what 3 months pregnant looks like in terms of an alien?[/u] [b]David tells Shaw she's 3 months pregnant BEFORE he tells her it's not human. He's telling her she's 3 months pregnant in terms of the size of a human fetus at 3 months. He knows they haven't been there for 3 months and that the alien fetus couldn't be that old as they hadn't been there 3 months.[/b] 22)[u]Why does David put Shaw to sleep when she asks him to take the alien fetus out?[/u] [b]First, putting Shaw to sleep and in cryo is the most rational actions he could take as the med-pod only works on males and they don't have the personel to do the procedure.[/b] 23)[u]Why does Shaw not mention David's behavior to anyone after the c-section?[/u] [b]Because his behavior was totally rational.[/b] 24)[u]Why is nobody, especially David,curious about what happened to Shaw and her baby after the c-section?[/u] [b]David trumped Shaw's pregnancy with the surviving Engineer. After he was found, anything else was secondary - which includes Shaw's baby. And David was the only one who SAW the fetus. I doubt he said much, of if he did, he was deliberately vague. Weyland's only concern was meeting his "maker", and since Shaw was obviously alive and coherent, why would Weyland even care? He was on borrowed time, only days to live - if that. He's not going to give a crap about what Shaw was up to.[/b] 25)[u]Why does Janek assume that LV-233 is an "experimental weapons depot" located far away from the Engineer's home world?[/u] [b]Janek explains this himself to Shaw in the film.[/b] 26)[u]If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it?[/u] 27)[u]Why is the ships control system started by a flute and controlled with buttons instead of being contolled by a flute OR buttons exclusively?[/u] [b]Do cars start up when you push the gas pedal or stereo buttons? No. They start with keys. The flute is the key the Engineers chose.[/b] 28)[u]Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on?[/u] [b]He has just been awakened early from a long sleep by inferior beings who he and his kind created and now want to destroy. These inferior beings have somehow found them and the rest of his beings on the ship are dead. He sees them somewhat of a threat. He has no idea what they know or what they're capable of. Not physically, he knows he can handle them physically. He's worried about what they know about the Juggernauts on the planet and their plan to destroy mankind.[/b] 29)[u]Why do Janek's co-pilots offer up their lives so readily?[/u] [b]First ands foremost the fact that the lifeboat can only sustain life for 2 years means they are going to die before anyone can rescue them anyway. Also, Janek seems to be a boss that they definitely look up to and they obviously respect him to the utmost. Plus, how often do you get a chance to save the entire planet instead of running like a coward?[/b] 30)[u]Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash?[/u] 31)[u]Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle?[/u] 32)[u]How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life?[/u] [b]If you look you can see that the part of the Juggernaut that lands where Shaw is is sloped inward which means the part of the ship that hit the rock was also lower to the ground when the ship hits. If the ship is sitting flat on flat ground that part of the ship would not be touching the ground.[/b] 33)[u]Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts?[/u] [b]See question #28.[/b] 34)[u]How does Shaw's baby grow so big in a confined area with no food source?[/u] [b]The trilobite fetus grew at an alarming rate while inside with what would seem to be little nutrition from Shaw as from the time she had intercourse and was impregnated to the time of the c-section she had not eaten anything. The trilobite just continues this trend after the c-section. Or perhaps the trilobite ate some of the crew members we didn't see much of.[/b] 35)[u]Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans?[/u] [b]To get answers. She states this at the end of the film. She doesn't care the cost. In her mind she will get answers from the Engineers or die and meet her maker and get answers that way.[/b] 36)[u]How did Shaw manage to acomplish all the feats of strength and daring after a very painful c-section?[/u] [b]Shaw gives herself painkilling shots during the c-section as well as after. The combination of future surgical tools and techniques, the ability of future drugs to kill pain as well as good ol' adrenaline could have easily helped her along.[/b] 37)[u]How did the Trilobite survive the sterilization process?[/u] [b]The Trilobite does have some human DNA and perhaps the Pauling Med-pod's sterilization process is not calibrated for human/alien hybrid parasite trilobite.[/b] 38)[u]Why is the Prometheus no equipped with weapons to blow the Juggernaut up instead of having to fly into it?[/u] [b]Scientific expedition. Not an attack ship.[/b]
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]
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Hadley's Hope
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Nugg, I'm curious as to whether you ever considered option 4. They did not give anyone a map inviting them to LV 223. Go read the script for the film, and spot where Holloway very quickly abandons scientific reasoning in favour of hunches and religious prejudice in his interpretation of the starmap. Each of those six dots are stars, none of them are planets or moons, so LV 223 is not actually indicated. It seems that in looking for Heaven he assumed it would be around the most ideal star, so he eliminates the other 5 and THEN looks for a suitable planet or moon to aim for. No mention of looking at all the planets in each system, and checking how many are adequate for life... he zeros in on an ideal. Heaven is ideal, real life is not. And for a race that travels the galaxy the odds that they would have an outpost in nearby solar systems should occur to him, especially as he is doing this briefing on Weylands ship. Weyland Corp at this stage has 80 odd colonies in different solar systems. And yet Holloway, assumes that finding 5 domes on a poisonous lifeless rock, confirms that he's knocking on the pearly gates... well, in a figurative sense he will soon "meet his maker". Also, if you look at the Scottish cave drawing, the figure depicted seems to point at the central star in the star map. I would argue that this does not seem to be the one that they went to, and Holloway makes no mention of considering this factor, even to discount it. I'm just wondering. Did you consider this at all? And if you did, what made you reject this option?
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Spartacus
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It was miss interpreted as a Map & an Invitation as Shaw so Happily states at the end of the film to Weyland's Face, what I think it really was, was a warning and have been laughed at for saying so for almost 2 years now.
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Nugg
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Hadley, I haven't read the script, so I'm only going off what I remember from the movie: If I remember right, Holloway said that only one constellation/group of stars seen from earth matched this pattern, and around those six stars there was only one planet or moon capable of supporting life. I take this to be the indication of LV-223. The reason I think it must have been a map or instructions is that Holloway stated that the same pattern was found in 8 or 10 different cultures with absolutely no connection to each other. The only explanation is that the Engineers repeatedly visited different ancient cultures to deliver this knowledge. The only explanation for that is the expectation that one day humans would make their own way there, why else would they repeatedly visit to deliver this pattern? The only reason they ended up at one of those six stars compared to any of the other thousand billion in the galaxy is because of the drawings. I'll give you they glossed over this section pretty quickly and it's quite a stretch that those ancient carvers got them star-chart accurate. It also begs the question why not just come back again when humans are closer to spaceflight... frankly I think the answers to these points is that this bit of the plot wasn't completely thought through but sounded awe-inspiring, wondrous and mysterious when they wrote it.
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Hadley's Hope
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[u]If I remember right, Holloway said that only one constellation/group of stars seen from earth matched this pattern, and around those six stars there was only one planet or moon capable of supporting life. I take this to be the indication of LV-223. [/u] Well if you're going by memory it's easy to miss, because he goes through it quickly. If it were a book, more people would catch it. He eliminates 5 of the stars and then says there one moon around the SIXTH that is capable of supporting life. [u]The reason I think it must have been a map or instructions is that Holloway stated that the same pattern was found in 8 or 10 different cultures with absolutely no connection to each other. The only explanation is that the Engineers repeatedly visited different ancient cultures to deliver this knowledge. The only explanation for that is the expectation that one day humans would make their own way there, why else would they repeatedly visit to deliver this pattern?[/u] but what if it's not an invitation to future generations, but actually a recollection by a member of a tribe of the map shown to them by visiting "Engineers/space Jockeys" inviting THEM to go, not us in the future. It would make sense that they brought some of them back on their ship surely. Why else did they build that elaborate system to generate breathable air, and a covered entrance from the ship to the urn chamber that doesn't go through the outside air? It's not for the Space Jockey's benefit. We see that guy running around outside with no mask, no helmet, in air that would kill any of us. [/my2cents]
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Nugg
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[u]but what if it's not an invitation to future generations, but actually a recollection by a member of a tribe of the map shown to them by visiting "Engineers/space Jockeys" inviting THEM to go, not us in the future.[/u] Yep, this is a valid alternative theory. Either way though, it still works with my proposed answer to point 26, that LV-223 wasn't a weapons depot at the time the ancient Engineers were visiting, it only became weaponised once the doomsday cult moved in. If the ancient visiting Engineers had hostile intentions, even secret hostile intentions, they wouldn't be showing maps to the humans, or at least not the correct ones. [u]It would make sense that they brought some of them back on their ship surely. Why else did they build that elaborate system to generate breathable air, and a covered entrance from the ship to the urn chamber that doesn't go through the outside air? It's not for the Space Jockey's benefit. We see that guy running around outside with no mask, no helmet, in air that would kill any of us.[/u] Someone on the Prometheus did say that the air outside would kill in 2-3 mins because of high CO2, not that it was poisonous and would kill instantly. You might be right, but equally it could be that although the Engineers are much more tolerant of CO2 than us, they are still much more comfortable in the atmosphere inside the domes. I take your points, but I'm still sticking with my theory :-)
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Hadley's Hope
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It wasn't Carbon [b]Di[/b]oxide (CO2), It was Carbon [b]Mon[/b]oxide (CO). Ford said Carbon Monoxide, and later Holloway says Carbon Dioxide, but he's wrong, as usual. 3% Carbon Dioxide wouldn't kill you. The air we breathe out has more than that (about 4%) and that's safe enough for mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Trying to breathe Carbon Monoxide, as Ford correctly says, is like sucking an exhaust pipe. It won't kill you instantly, it will knock you out in seconds and then your dead in under two minutes, so pretty fast. It bonds with the haemoglobin in the blood preventing the blood from carrying any oxygen to the brain, heart and other tissues. And it would take a radical change to the human body to be able to adapt to that.
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Doctor Watson
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If the alien race was created due to acts of Prometheus in 2093, how come the aliens existed in avp1 and 2 which are set before...also avp1 states that the aliens have existed for thousands of years? o.O
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brego
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Not understanding something, or not getting answers one expects or understands are not plot holes. A plot hole is something like. Why would experienced, highly paid scientists take their helmets off on a previously unknow planet containing humanoid micro climates? Why did it take so little time to find the Engineer outposts, yet so long to realise that a Silica Storm was coming? Why was the Engineer able to run from his crashed ship to the escape pod without a helmet on? Why was Shaw able to pilot an Alien Ship with only the working head of a Robot.
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sameer khan
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I believe this is how they should fit in the preds - millions of years ago, the engineers came to earth to start life on a planet they felt could sustain life. Once life started, first came the amphibians, the reptiles, the dinos, etc. Then came humans, who then (according to AVP) were visited by the predators who taught the humans how to make pyramids, tools, etc. (basically everything about starting a civilization). This might have ticked off the engineers because the engineers and the preds are two species that have been at war since start of time to take the title of being the ultimate inter-galactic species. Also, the preds ''breed'' humans every 100 years because humans and the engineers have the same dna. So, by hunting humans, the preds actually polish their fighting skills so that they become better equipped to fight the engineers as ghey have the same characteristics.
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Hadley's Hope
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@Sameer [u]I believe this is how they should fit in the preds[/u] That's not going to happen (nor should it imho) Ridley Scott does not like the Predator crossover, nor do most Alien fans. If they are included at all it would be like a joke, the way that Predator 2 briefly showed a Xeno skull as one of the trophies on the ship.
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Demeisen
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AvP is not, as far as I know, canon.
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vulkus
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[b][u]Not understanding something, or not getting answers one expects or understands are not plot holes. A plot hole is something like. Why would experienced, highly paid scientists take their helmets off on a previously unknow planet containing humanoid micro climates?[/u][/b] Because they are amatuers and it is a well known plot gimmick. [b][u]Why was the Engineer able to run from his crashed ship to the escape pod without a helmet on?[/u][/b] Ever read the comic Rogue Trooper? If not he was a genetically modified super soldier, who could various types of atmospheres that would kill normal humans. I believe the same can be applied to the Engineers. [b][u]Why was Shaw able to pilot an Alien Ship with only the working head of a Robot.[/u][/b] She also had the body of David as you can see her lowerhing it down to the buggy. At some point it can be assumed that David would and could reassemble himself. AvP is not Canon.
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brego
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Vulkus, thats drawing a long bow.... If the engineers didnt need helmets to walk around the planet as "super soldiers, why would they need them at all? How would an android be able to reasemble itself, with no spare parts or micro tools at hand? He wasnt Wolverine, or a vampire..... lol This can go on and on. If we look at any film ever made, even the greatest, we can find plot holes. Here's another one. David's finger would have contained micro particles of the Black Substance after he touched it. So would Holloways urine and sweat particles, meaning that the entire ship would have been infected.....
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vulkus
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[b]Vulkus, thats drawing a long bow.... If the engineers didnt need helmets to walk around the planet as "super soldiers, why would they need them at all? [/b] Well I have a theory about that. The hologram shows the Engineers running towards the goo chamber. Why would they run in there? Their helmet is very elephantine. The biggest and most daunting monument in that room is the humanesque head. What if they only wears those helmets while in that pyramid because the goo is engineered towards reconising humanity? So wearing that helmet allows them to walk freely without impunity. [b]How would an android be able to reasemble itself, with no spare parts or micro tools at hand? He wasnt Wolverine, or a vampire..... lol[/b] Well they are on a 'cargo' ship. There would be parts or things that D8 could retro fit for himself. He already understands their written and oral language.
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Demeisen
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[b]Well I have a theory about that. The hologram shows the Engineers running towards the goo chamber. Why would they run in there? Their helmet is very elephantine. The biggest and most daunting monument in that room is the humanesque head. What if they only wears those helmets while in that pyramid because the goo is engineered towards reconising humanity? So wearing that helmet allows them to walk freely without impunity.[/b] A simpler answer would be that the suit is a hazmat suit; like a radiation suit, you wear it to protect yourself. The goop won't go, "look it's a human! Kill it!" It will try to do that to everything it can, but if you're wearing a suit then it can't. [b]Repairable David.[/b] Honestly, I don't think it's unlikely that he could repair himself with her help. Maybe not to pristine condition, but certainly reattach his bonce.
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Omega
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Let put my take on some of the ones still not answered and then add in some other interpretations. 1)Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film? My take on the whole thing is that the Engineers are more of a 'pure' strand of us. Meaning that the skin is grey and their eyes are black because the lack pigment, which is a trait. They lack hair because that is also a trait. Traits come from evolution. So in essence the Engineer is more of a blank slate or building block to start from. 26)If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it? This is where I think more of the 'Prometheus' mythology tie in. We were only suggested that Engineers wanted us to visit them. To me the one pointing to the stars is Prometheus and that he is warning us about a threat from that star system.
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Omega
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Well I have a theory about that. The hologram shows the Engineers running towards the goo chamber. Why would they run in there? Their helmet is very elephantine. The biggest and most daunting monument in that room is the humanesque head. What if they only wears those helmets while in that pyramid because the goo is engineered towards reconising humanity? So wearing that helmet allows them to walk freely without impunity. A simpler answer would be that the suit is a hazmat suit; like a radiation suit, you wear it to protect yourself. The goop won't go, "look it's a human! Kill it!" It will try to do that to everything it can, but if you're wearing a suit then it can't. My theory on that whole thing is even different yet. In the beginning of the movie the goo only starts to do something after it has come in contact with an atmosphere that can promote life (removes lid it starts moving, they enter room - bringing in an atmosphere and it starts moving). The goo is harmless when there isn't an atmosphere, so they are wearing the suits because there is no air to breathe.
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Indy John
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"... The biggest and most daunting monument in that room is the humanesque head..." Is this 'monument' a composite.of all humans...or a specific human. I wonder if running a face recognition(Easter Island..or other head monuments) program yield any results?..Or perhaps what region on Earth is represented.. For something so prominent I would think a specific person would be represented..
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AndroidsAreTrouble
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After seeing the movie again, and after reading the threads here, I specifically focused on some key scenes and here is my report: 1. Beginning: I still could not tell if the Engineer knew what was going to happen. One one hand he looks ceremonious, solemn, then on the other, he appears to fight the reaction. No conclusion. 2. Goo chamber, murals: The murals definitely change. It is stated they do in the movie. They change from an Engineer to indicating what, I don't know. Also, the chamber has a portion that appears obviously religious with a Xeno on the back wall. 3. The head. The head is infected with the goo. Some kind of highly reactive evolutionary agent. This hints that they were infected which is what they were scrambling about for. 4. The Pilot. When he awakens, he clearly kneels. First he rises and straightens which indicates that he needs no recovery time. He sees the humans and kneels and stays so with hi head down until the scuffle escalates. Then once David speaks to him, he proceeds to destroy the visitors but mainly to get on his way. Regardless of the his surprise visitors or assessing the current out of control situation in the ship. He is obviously in a hurry and perhaps desperate. This implies a zealous dedication to his mission- perhaps a religious zeal. Proceed at all costs. My thoughts: I do not understand the religious queues of the Xenos in the ships. Why these engineers would worship a Xeno is beyond me. They have never shown any substantial intelligence in any Alien flick. Unfortunately, I fear that this movie was loosely assembled without serious dedication to flushing out a logically sound plot line. For one example, evidence the absolutely shameful depiction of a biologist and geologist (part of very expensive and secretive mission) who act in ways more foolish than ordinary people with plain common sense.
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Indy John
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"... Beginning: I still could not tell if the Engineer knew what was going to happen...." I noticed that the goo in the contaner was held in the 'Left Hand' of the Sacrificiual Engineer. The left hand(in human terms) is associated with Evil deeds..and coud be a foretelling of evil results from consuminhg the goo.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life

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