June 14, 2012@Recka73, hi Recka, I plucked these from one of your earlier question posts. Oh, and don't put a 'lid on it'. I only mentioned it was a similar approach to the movie to explain why I was typing the response to both questions together.
supposition #1 …David said, How disappointing it would be to you if your makers say they made you because they could. Is that the answer? They only made us because they could? Or did they not even make us, were they compelled by who made them to make us?
1) think this is a fascinating question. My personal take is, per the start of the movie the Gardeners contributed the DNA fragments that evolved into all multicelluar life including us, however, the point David makes is right on target; evolution made us because it could. So what?
2) David is also perhaps elaborating on the his comment that he hopes he's not built too close [to humans/his creators] because to David finding one's creator is not something he had to seek out. Ya , ok, so what?
3) When the Gardener's head explodes in the lab containment, David's comment is they appear mortal after all. Hmm, ok and?
4) David points out just before meeting the live Gardener that they will be found "a superior species" and "their hyper sleep chambers will impress" a corollary being Gardeners require sleep chambers to travel through space just like you earth humans and hence you'll think this a sign of superiority YET David does not require a sleep chamber at all and (without this weakness upon which to improve better crutches) he is not recognized as a superior species, rather he is considered inferior. The movie is rife with these corollaries made by David which one might infer as foreshadowing David's role as an entirely different as not species or another genus or another family or another order, class, or even phylum or frankly kingdom - he's an entirely different manifestation of intelligence.
5) David epitomizes this when he notes "big things have small beginnings" about the black goo virus, but also himself." Are you saying David has ambitions?
6) Actually, far from it, he has no ambitions as far as I can tell, but he can recognize the reality of a situation without distorting it as earth humans do. He is rational and he recognizes his situation. Okay, but he read all those glyphs and set everyone up right?
7) Not exactly - David does many time purposefully put the group at risk. Say for example when he purposefully delays answering a request not to open the 'urn' room door until he has finished and then simply replies 'oops', but not for himself. What do you mean?
8) Precisely like in 2001, a Space Odessy, David is an AI, as was HAL9000, who has been given specific secret instructions that cause him to act in ways one might perceive as self motivated or self serving, but they are actually other serving. What? By Whom?
9) Peter Weyland. But hold on, we didn't see Weyland instruct David until much later in the movie?
10) Excellent observation and a good device to remember since Scott and the writers are using this device so often, I've rarely seen such a concentration of it in one story line. What do you mean?
11) Scott and the writers are presenting story that can only correctly be interpreted in light of facts we are given later in the story. This is a trope I see commonly in mysteries and requires the re-evaluation of all scenes in light new facts presented which can be quite a mental workout unless you are intuitive (hence somewhat atemporal) so people tend not to notice an a connection, but it is tenuously understood when explained with an 'ah ha' moment, but i digress….so
12) Although we did not, David knew Weyland was on board all along. We were shown David monitoring the dreams of the other passengers, just as he was able to receive instruction from Weyland, but we were force fed the red herring that Weyland had died. This by the was was explicitly for us, the audience. How do you know that?
13) Peter Weyland is essentially a King. No one can keep him off the ship as obviously he was on it. Do you think no one on Earth missed Peter Weyland? So the only people he would have been hiding it from would have been his own crew. What reason do you think that served? What's even odder is Peter seems surprised his daughter was on board at all indicating he was put in hyper sleep first and yet was she supposed to not know? I say that because 'her' operation chair was configured for a man, that man being Peter Weyland. I suspect it was Peter's life raft too so he could have his own place near the Gods if they be, but I digress.
14) David is doing Weyland's bidding, but that doesn't mean David doesn't have his own agenda. What what agenda and I thought you said he didn't have ambition?
15) Remember when Elizabeth Shaw was impregnated with a xeno, doped up, and about to be crated into a hyper sleep chamber. At that moment, she stopped being a 'person' she had now become a xeno collection device and was cut off from the rest humanity. Why do you say that?
16) Because that's when David confides in Elizabeth he violated her mind by watching her dreams and knows every personal thing that might have come to her mind. He asks her questions she'll find disturbing, such as how it must feel have her husband die like her father and what it must be like to realize your god is dead, etc. He is saying in a fashion that he knows her better than she knows herself. Watch that moment, David actually takes Elizabeth into his confidence. Conjecture, but I'd offer he does this because he finds her something he can't quite add up, irrational but instinctively correct, and hence special. That is conjecture - do you have proof?
17) Ever wonder why Elizabeth's cross was in David's utility belt? That is to say why David chose to keep Elizabeth's cross on his person. Yes?
18) Now you know why. What's more is that now David continues to keep her in his confidence, such as offering doesn't everyone want their parents dead, because he knows only he and Elizabeth know it probably doesn't matter any more. What do you mean?
19) David even admits to having a hand in Charlie's death by saying he knows it is safe to remove one's helmet (because he knows Charlie and humans can only catch the black goo virus through ingestion.) Elizabeth understands this and says nothing; in a sense keeping the information 'in confidence' and thereby sealing Elizabeth's and David's special relationship. What's more David can read the glyphs. Operate the Gardener dashboards and devices. He begins to deliberately nuance (mislead within bounds) Peter Weyland. I sensed that too, but do you have proof?
20) Remember the piles of urns? When Peter asks David, 'What is this" David says "A storage facility". At this moment, we the audience have been hamfistedly fed that this is a weapons depot through an awkward but apparently necessary scene in which Captain Janek informs Elizabeth that this place is a 'weapons facility' and the urns are filled with biological weapons which is why the Gardeners keep isolated from themselves. This sets the stae so when David misleads Peter that the audience can be sure to be 'in the know' with accompanying looks and lines from Elizabeth to Janek setting up the final sequence. Okay, so David is ambitious?
21) David is not ambitious. For example, he does not want Peter Weyland dead, but all things being equal he will give Peter what Peter wants and if that happens to coincide with with voluntary risky behavior David won't stop him from informedly hurting himself to achieve his stated goal. It is very much like David is constantly balancing an equation. How do you know this?
22) This is the exact same equation David demonstrated with Charlie, the drink, and the black goo virus finger tip. David explicitly asked Charlie "to get answers"… "What would you be willing to do?" David doesn't give Charlie the goo laced drink until immediately after Charlie says "I'd do anything." To which David says, "that calls for a drink" and hands Charlie the cup. David is following very explicit behavior rules even when it involves incredible risk for David himself which happens so often I won't give examples, but this said David knows the factual situation he's in (per above.) In a sense, David carries forward specific outcomes 'surfing' on the wave of self interest of others because he needs their full agreement. This is the corollary of his being programmed not to act against or remain neutral to people's needs hence working with people is necessary to achieve specific outcomes - making these outcomes 'spinoffs' of a person's. The "trick" is David doesn't have to disclose the 'spinoff' outcome as it is already in agreement with the subjects request even if the person who requested it is unaware of the specific "spinoff" outcome David is aware of. In this way, all related free agency literally remains with people and is denied to David. Naturally, David has learned to be quite adept at "exploiting" this "loophole". I'd offer this is a little bit about David's mo in the movie. Watch it again!
Supposition #2, …did [David] get his head ripped off for the breach in containing the WMD? Is that the Prometheus connection? (It bothers me that the gardener looked at him so lovingly before ripping his head off. Even if he is not "alive" its still harsh the way it goes from complete love to contempt so quickly.
#1) Another fascinating question. In short, I offer this is the most telling part of the entire movie about what's going on. Why do you say this?
#2) I'll explain, but first I'll note that you know this yourself. Know how you know this? No, how?
#3) You know this because you (and by 'you' I mean everyone who saw the film) found this sequence confusing…at least for some period of time. (Interestingly, the longer you found this confounding is an expression of how much integrity you have, that is truthfulness with yourself about yourself.) A great number of people, for example, were highly annoyed because they inferred that if they couldn't readily understand the answers presented in this clearly important scene, then there must be something 'wrong' with this movie. (Broadly speaking, this is known as narcisssm.) ...but I digress.
#4) So we all knew this was an important scene. I'd offer we really don't know why what happened happened, but we can work through what we observed so
#5) David opens the living Gardener's hyper sleep/cryo chamber. The Gardener starts to immediately sit up disconnecting his life support tubes. The Gardeners then leans over the chamber's edge and coughs. (This is designed to make the audience recall the same reaction of Elizabeth when she awoke from her chamber and that, as David pointed out, this is a human not a god.)
#6) The Gardener exits the chamber in a very, very quick series of camera shots that flip between Gardner exiting and quickly going down on one or both knees head on the ground (incidentally or purposefully placing his head at Peter's feet), startling Peter Weyland into leaning backward to have David steady him. Then if memory serves Elizabeth demands David ask why the [Gardners] hate earth humans. To which Peter, basically tells her to hush up. They argue and she gets hit. During this sequence, the Gardener is shown clearly kneeling on one knee before Peter and begins to dare to lift his head and actually look at the earth humans. He then stands up. David speaks a combination of ancient languages (presumably conveying Peter's request, though potentially Elizabeth's as well.) At which point, the Gardener looks at each of the earth humans, including the doctor, and then places his hand on David's head and appears to stroke his hair. He then grabs David by the neck and lifting him off the ground before basically ripping David's head off his shoulders.
…I'm off to bed…to be continued.
