What Happened to the Engineers on LV_223?

In the ampule room it cannot be ignored that the vases are aligned in a configuration and spacing pattern very similar to that which a xenomorph queen employs when laying her eggs. Though not containing facehuggers, or any organism that falls within the known lifecycle of the xeno, the vases do contain, apparently, the catalyst for transforming other organisms into surrogates of that lifecycle architecture or imbuing organisms with similar traits. Charlie is exposed to the black goo and his sperm becomes something akin to a large facehugger with the ability to deposit xeno larva. Even the mutated worm’s natural inclination was to go down the throat of its victim Millburn. Though Charlie dies before it is known exactly how the goo would ultimately manifest, all other mutations exhibit the same generally violent disposition as a xeno, especially the antagonist engineer who is awakened from sleep. Now look closely at the xeno mural. The arms and what can be seen of the right hand are humanoid. No claws, no exoskeletal elements, but smooth, fleshy and muscular. It’s a hybrid. Perhaps not unlike the xeno who emerged in the final scene, who incidentally bared human teeth and gums. It was a hybrid whose unique characteristic was the presence of human DNA early in its lifecycle. Look closely at the antagonist Engineer. He and his shipmates (as seen in the holograms) wear suits whose visual cues are strikingly similar to xeno physiology and to the design in the mural. Or are those suits? The Gigeresque textures appear to extend beyond the supposed flight suit and are apparent on the skin of the neck and forearms of the antagonist. He is not the same as the sacrificial engineer of the prologue. He is a hybrid or in some state of hybridization. He and his kind are a splinter group of engineers and they worship or otherwise revere the xenomorph, who perhaps they encountered in their interplanetary travels. We can deduce from the Alien film that they were in possession of eggs or maybe even a queen. When that became unmanageable, they derived a process whereby the DNA is extracted to a solution which they could use in their transformation. This process became as a religion to them and the sacrament was stored in jars before an alter in a temple. They would not be the only ones in this universe to come to admire the xeno and wish to exploit its more beneficial traits (Weyland). Eventually the solution becomes unstable or uncontrollable as all incarnations of this strain do. Some die of its ill internal effects (exploded heads), others become incubators (exploded ribs), some may well have been killed by external mutations of native species (imagine a xeno amoeba). Others still may have fallen at the hand of their bretheren who had gone mad with xeno rage. Ultimately, they cannot achieve the desired effect of the hybrid process. Yet we see how the addition of the human to the chain creates a stable hybrid. Although they share the same DNA as Engineers, if humans are, for whatever reason the key to a stable hybrid, and if the Engineers arrived at this conclusion, then this would explain Earth being the Engineer crew’s destination. Not to destroy per se, but to create the ultimate species by way of introducing our race into the process. Remember, this scenario relies on the LV-223 faction as having their own motivations outside that of the greater Engineer race. So perhaps it is their point of view that we humans are theirs to do with as they will. I’ve been pondering this for a few days, and that’s the best I could do. Feedback appreciated.

Hadley, Oddly as it may seen, the two moons are in the same planetary system. It is Ridley Scott himself who said that. Take a look at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DayJEPzk8

I think there is no sense in create theories out of the hat. It makes more sense to focus in what is showed in the movies or what Scott said in interviews. So there is this theory of two different faction among the engineers and I saw no clear evidence of that. Ok, the engineer at the first scene is different from the one sleeping in stasys, who seens to have some kind of exoskeleton. And the ships are different too. Ok. But if it was Earth in that first scene, or even another planet but a long time ago, lets say hundred of thousand years ago, I would expect then to evolve their engineering and to create a different project of starship in this "short" period of time. I would also expect then to evolve somehow as species or to develope a biomechanical armor that binds to their bodies. So, there is a lot of different explanations more plausible than imagine a civil war that we have no clue that could have happened.

Hi, Hadley's Hope. [quote]True. A lot of how you interpret the movie comes down to whether you assume that is Earth or not. There's nothing to show that it is, just our own guess, and of course that subliminal link in the following scene with the monolith that has a similar silhouette to the departing ship.[/quote] Ridley Scott was asked this. He said the planet may or may not be Earth. It was just to show the Engineers activities throughout the galaxy. [quote]Did you consider that perhaps they didn't create us? did you consider that whatever first visited us, we haven't seen it, and what was seen on LV 223- the Space Jockey may not be an Engineer, but the result of tampering with humans abducted on the visits to make strong, obedient slaves for dangerous work, like being sacrificed and working with that black goo, on a remote moon far from friends and family (no wife no kids... and centuries of sleep between jobs)[/quote] I had thought this also, however, Damon Lindelof has said that in the Alienverse the Engineers did create Mankind and that the Space Jockeys are the Engineers. He said the movie answered that question "definitely", though I don't recall where in the movie this is proven. If it is Shaw discovering the DNA match, that is a flimsy basis - that could just mean we came from the same source. Although, "flimsy" reasoning goes hand in hand with the thinking of nearly every scientist I've ever encountered :)

Holly fu@Y, Hadley! I was intirely missing the fact that the engineer do breath outside the domus.

If Engineers could breathe oxygen, why did they wore helmets upon entering the Ampule room? I think that Engineers hermeticly sealed chamber with Ampulies by manually activating green crystal which is a sort of mechanic lock that protect compound. When our team of loony scientists broke that seal they let oxygen to the room which, triggered series of fatal events. Pyramid is protected, but from who or what? That Alien did not hatched all by himself, but our creators set him free after they found out that "bad" Engineers are planning to erase us. Pyramid is protected by mechanism against Engineers or something very human like. I am not convinced that this type of protection was designed to keep Alien from escaping the Pyramid.

lots of great theories i think the jars contained life the black ooze was an industrial accident, caused by... someone mentioned why the other ships if it was an accident. they did battle the strange atmosphere there, perhaps the planet itself made all the jars leaky due to some electrical storm or something. anyone else notice... ground worms morphed into snakes humans morph into giant squid engineer + squid morphed into xenomorph one might say, there is more human to that xenomorph than meets the eye!

This is my theory over the back story of what happened on LV-223, this comes from reading the info posted on this site and some assumptions. The Engineer Monks vs. Engineer Warriors All engineers were part of a peaceful society. A "religious" group of engineer monks "seeded" life through out the universe/galaxies through self-sacrifice and the use of the black goo (aka the beginning scene triggers life) . The engineer monks had exclusive control of the black goo for good purposes. They had learned to extract it from the domestication of the xenomorphs (Xeno DNA). The engineer monks lived in temples all across the universe like LV-223. The engineer monks monitored the development of the human race, and showed the humans where their temples were located (aka paintings). At some point, another empire arose from the Engineer society, one that was evil and bent on destruction of the universe. This warrior faction wanted and needed the power of the black goo for evil purposes. They hunted and sacked all engineer monk temples. They chose to use the black goo for bio-weapons for destruction and bio-technology upgrades (aka the precious suit). As for LV-223, this was a temple that was attacked by a group of warrior engineers that were looking for the black goo. The first holograms activated by David show a groups of engineers in suits running toward the ampule room which is being locked down, hence why one engineer was beheaded. A likely scenario, is that the engineer monks at the temple fought back or may have performed some sort of self-sacrifice by unleashing the black goo on their attackers (a viral outbreak). This self-sacrifice by monks left the ampule room ripe with life (aka the earthworms). And it also resulted in the death of many warrior engineers (aka the pile of engineers in suits). Although the warriors were successful in overtaking the temple, only a few remained. They stocked piled their weapons and left the ampule room as a trap. The ampule room looks to have been a booby trap for anyone who tinkered into the temple. The remaining warrior engineers began preparations to leave for earth, but before take-off, an undetected black goo infection kills all but one engineer warrior who is already in a hyper-sleep chamber. Hence, the ship never takes off for earth. The lone engineer in cryo-sleep aboard the juggernaut is the sole survivor of the ordeal, when he is awakened he is naturally surprised to see the humans but then remembers his mission of destruction. Making more assumptions: it's possible that engineer monks have been wiped out or that there some sort of truce between the monk and warrior factions of the Engineer society.

Shane C, I agree with most of what you say, I don't see where you get the 'faction' element, however. I think, the layout of pillars in the room, is important, with the giant stone head in a central position. [img]http://www.houriganwebworks.com/images/Urns.png[/img] Is your faction idea based on the assumption that they are bringing this to Earth, rather than bringing humans to the chamber? It's never explained why all those urns are in the ship. Are they bringing them from where ever they are made, to restock the facility in LV 223, or are they meant to be deployed on their living cargo? They don't seem to be arranged in a way suitable for aerial dispersal, like bomb racks in a bomb bay.

You know, I have been hearing some things about the Engineers, being the divided into rival factions and perhaps a civil war was going on in the past. One the one hand I agree there isn't much evidence to support this. But when you think about it. With a possible sequel in mind. Imagine all Engineers are evil, and they all operate with the same single minded purpose. How would this work? Shaw and David end up on the Engineer Planet, there will be nothing but dangerous bio weapons and evil Engineers. How can they find answers in a world like that, or even survive? It would be a run-scared, action movie. Nothing like the first one. There has to be some kind of mediator between them and the Engineers, either Engineers who have good intentions, or yet a different race of aliens.

Well NYFM I'm thinking that what is being foreshadowed is that Shaw's allies will be Space Jockeys rebelling against their masters, who we have yet to meet. I don't think it's a faction thing between equals. There seems to be enough hints at a hierarchical society (like a hive) and the clues of alien abduction and slavery. It's possible that David switches side, to the 'superior' beings, and Shaw is left with a rag tag bunch of giant grey dudes, who are sick of being expendable. That would make it more than just a "run, hide, look for a flamethrower' type of movie.

@Hadley's Hope That actually sounds like a pretty plausible plot for a sequel. I do not trust that David. He was made before Ash probably, and according to Bishop from Aliens those older models were shaky :P I'm not saying by the way that I think Prometheus 2 would be a dumb action movie. I'm just supporting the theory of some possible ally they will find in either the Engineers or some other (sort of) friendly race.

These "Engineers" ain't all that. At least the dumb ass colonists on LV426 managed a last stand. I say we nuke their entire site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure there is never a PROMETHEUS 2.

Were they wiped out in response to their plan to kill us by their own kind ?

Outbreak Monkey, nuff said! =)

I have not seen a plausible explaination for why the Engineers(Dead) all ended up in a pile! Thats not what Aliens do it wreaks of the treatment your enemy would give you after killing you. And WHY where some chestbursted and others hole in the head killed. Maybe not the right place to put this but THE Alien we saw at the end was a completely new(Original?) design and I suspect does not yet have acid for blood!

In the sacrifice scene, the Engineer takes out a container that begins to bubble once in contact with air (i.e oxygen/nitrogen/carbon). It seems pretty much the same sorta black goo sealed away in those canopic jars at the Engineer HQ or Temple. The stuff that brings life from death, also can just bring death. The black goo is an exceedingly strong catalyst. As Hadley's Hope had mentioned in a previous post, the containers were placed in a "snare" formation" i.e the black goo remained stable until there was contact with air, delivered by any encroaching life-form, making it a prey for the creatures that dwell there. A perfect, bio-engineered experiment/weapon. Unfortunately, the Engineers (like the builders of Jurassic Park) did not leave room for chaos or chaotic interactions. Why an advanced civilization such as the one that the Engineers come from would leave out such an important factor in their calculations, a perfect world says a lot about their universe, literal and otherwise. Perhaps the Promethean Alien, was freeing his own people from that world, a world locked in a death spiral (presumtion here) due to its undying belief in perfection, humans perhaps seem to be just an evolutionary by-product. However, even little by-products have greater effect on final outcomes, just as David the Android might seem to play a greater part than one assummes at first in mankinds destruction/salvation. "Life finds a Way".

Oops..double post. Sorry

@ Robo Dwarf I believe Prometheus doesn't have enough steam to make a trilogy, but I really don't know much at this point. Just as we "descended" from "uber" DNA, the Aliens can be shown to have descended from us. And the rest is film history. [b]However unlike us, why would things made of the "same stuff" as Aliens want to consume us as food ?[/b] Is Ridley showing us why we destroyed our own legacy because of corporate greed etc. That Chaos (in the form of Weyland)and his daughter Nyx (Vickers) are repeating a similar chain of events from history, which we haven't learnt a lot from obviously. If the Engineers are "angels" and what we witnessed was an "angelic rebellion" or casting out, then who can we presume is God ? Is it a "source" of all living things, as in the Abrahamic God or is there a vacancy for that position and we witness instead the creation of the Demiurge of the Gnostics , presumably David.

Why did David infect Holloway? When we see David 'talking' to Weyland when he's in hyper sleep, Weyland presumably asks him 'what does the black goo do?' David says he 'doesn't know' and Weyland tells him to find out. So why pick holloway In particular....well I think it may be a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. David has been programmed not to feel emotions, and not to harm humans. ....but if you will recall he specifically asks David 'what would you do to get your answers, how far would you be willing to go?' (or words to that effect). To which holloway says 'anything'. In terms of David's logical computational thinking, holloway has simply AGREED to take part in David's crude experiment so he therefore sees nothing wrong with infecting him! Thoughts?