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Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:24 PMDavid ( nor Peter Weyland ) could have known the life-cycle of the black matter or its properties. Why then did David infect Holloway? He can't have known Holloway's intimacy with the infertile Shaw would create an alien creature, could he?
34 Replies
Mr.Vickers
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:35 PMYou probably shouldn't put a spoiler in your title like that. It's not really fair for those of us that haven't seen it yet.
RocknRollGhost
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:38 PMThe title is a spoiler in itself.
I think that David's curiosity is what led him to do it. He made sure that Holloway would do anything to get answers before dipping his finger in his drink. He didn't know what would happen ... only that he was interested in seeing if anything would happen.
TheNextLV426
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:38 PMNo there is no way he could have known and it makes no sense. I am totally with you on that. It's just one of the huge leaps in faith we have to take.
TheNextLV426
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:38 PMNo there is no way he could have known and it makes no sense. I am totally with you on that. It's just one of the huge leaps in faith we have to take.
LV 223 WRECK
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:44 PMBy the order of Weyland because he was messing around and drinks too much of Weyland's wines
Space Jockstrap
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:45 PMIt's very simple....Weyland programmed him to do it in order to get the ball rolling in order to save his own life. Later in the film there is a clear accusation made by Shaw to "stop Weyland programming you"
Maybe there won't be so many "plotholes" when you watch Prometheus more carefully
Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 2:47 PMApologies, I thought by going only through the Spoliers section, the title itself would not show up on the main page. I'm trying to get to grips with the site and how it works, so sorry.
TheNextLV426
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:00 PMSorry space jockstrap, there was no evidence at that point in the film that the goo would have any affect on Holloway. Putting it in his drink was speculative at best.
MattR
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:03 PMFirst off I thought the film was rubbish. Very glossily produced rubbish to be sure, but future generations will not admire it in the way that they do Alien and Bladerunner. For all that, I think the continuity isn't as bad as some have suggested. Isn't it obvious that Weyland's exhortation to David to "try harder" prompted him to consider infecting Holloway? I assume he wouldn't have had a clear idea of the consequences, but he was prepared to experiment. And, as someone else pointed out, he did kind of clear it with Holloway first: "how far would you go?" So it seems David has some form of (programmed) conscience, which explains his subsequent concern for Shaw and agreeing to help her (we assume for the sequel).
In my view, despite several 'deus ex machina', the plot had it's own integrity. It just wasn't original or very good. Dialogue and acting (Theron) were abysmal. The best thing by far was Fassbinder. I would have preferred to see a film with only him and the 'engineers' in it, rather than any of those ludicrous, 2-dimensional, cliched characters. A trillion dollar mission to discover life elsewhere in the Universe and they send a disturbed sociopath with a mohican rather than, say, Story Musgrave.
I'm intrigued by the reviews in The Observer and The Guardian (UK newspapers). Peter Bradshaw and Philip French (in particular) gave positive reviews. I am SURE there is no way that Bradshaw could have seen the film as anything but tosh. I guess it is difficult being a reviewer when your employers have sold a fortune in advertising to a film's producers....
I touched on a sequel earlier. In fact I doubt there will be one, or if there is it will be a low budget cash-in to try and recover a few dollars from Fox's folly. This film we be a flop. Word of mouth will not be good and repeat video sales will be poor.
I'm sorry. I'm disappointed. Maybe I'll have a s;lightly more positive spin on things when I've had a few days to let it sink in. But I know, sitting in the cinema, I was saying to myself: "that's just rubbish/stupid/corny". I didn't do that with Bladerunner.
Space Jockstrap
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:07 PM@TheNextLV426
Exactly !!! They haven't a clue what it will do if anything. Weyland clearly states he has days to live, no time for lengthy tests so what better way than a live subject and who would volunteer ?
Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:17 PMMatt R, I do agree with what you say. For all fans, I would suggest reading Badassdigest's review, which sums up my own questions and frustrations nicely.
I do want to see a sequel though, so they can wrangle back a good fulfilling story...well, I hope!
I would loved to have seen much more of David on the ship in the two years prior to the crew awakening. Those moments were too few, but were beautifully Kubrick-esque. In my mind, they may have added to further reasoning behind David's motivations to please his 'father'
Prouty99
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:23 PMWhat happened to Asimovs laws ?
Speculatively infecting a human to see what would happen ?
unless Weyland programmed David to ignore the laws...,or maybe Scott doesn,t know much about synthetic lifeforms...,>sarcasm<
Space Jockstrap
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 3:44 PMIt's obvious to me that the subservient David is remotely reprogrammed by the secretly reawakened Weyland in order to carry out his diabolical plan...no mystery
Kyzo
MemberOvomorphJun-04-2012 4:19 PMAs the consequences of the action were unknown i think it enters a sort of grey area in regard to the programmed laws.
As for the transformation he undertook he did seem to be changing into an engineer I actually pictured a cringey fight in which he would battle the sleeping engineer so was quite relieved to see him burn
kwebb1265
MemberOvomorphJun-15-2012 5:27 AMWhat I can't quite figure out is what was the significance of David's choosing to model himself on Peter O'Toole's portrayal of T.E. Lawrence?
Drevkov
MemberOvomorphJun-20-2012 12:30 AMIf you pay attention David asks how far will you go to get your answers, and holloway said anything so his system assumes he would talk the black goop
MattR
MemberOvomorphJul-03-2012 3:57 AMWhy is everyone going on about the ' 3 laws' and the supposed fact that robots aren't supposed to harm humans? That is a concept invented by Isaac Asimov. It has no more relevance outside the universe of Asimov's robot stories than does George Lucas's 'force' has outside Star Wars. If any writer wants to have a robot harm a human, fine - it's their story!
Gabous
MemberOvomorphJul-03-2012 8:51 AMDavid is also experimenting. David infected Holloway because he is also jealous, yeees, jealous cos he is "feeling" something about Elizabeth Shaw.
We see David taking care of the ship, but we also see him "spying" Elizabeht Shaw´s dreams (we sense that he gave special attenton to the doctor)
He protect her more than Holloway. He looks after her. He will know that he is in love in some point. Feelings come from our brain, not our heart.
And feelings are learned!
He knows how to operate de ships, knows how to open easily the ship doors...he has information, "someone" downloaded those programms.
but they didnt teach him how to feel.
He imitates human beings. And also we are aware that we all learn from imitation. but he also disregards not very polite or human behaviour like Holloway who is cruel (a very human thing ironically)
David is the chosen one.
He knows it.
HyperNova
MemberOvomorphJul-03-2012 12:59 PMWeyland perhaps wants to be indulged as the Voit Komph test in Blade Runner, Weyland as Tyrell wants a 'demonstration' he wants 'a negative before he is provided with a positive'. And he certainly wants the Black Substance tested out on a subject other than himself. He may be maniacal and hell bent on conquering in his own way as the Engineers now seem to be but he isn't stupid either to offer himself up as the first trial guinea pig for the so-thought of serum as they were not to know its value to an organism yet whether for the good or bad.
.
MemberOvomorphJul-03-2012 1:27 PMDavid 8 is a super computer of the highest order, with most likely all of humanities known knowledge (this would include all medical / biological fields of study) and thus began analyzing the Black Goo the moment he encountered it in the Engineer's facility. Did any notice he never once used a electron microscope or any other lab devices... he is a walking talking fully functional laboratory... A lot of people just consider David 8 a butler with a pleasing demeanor... check out the Weyland site and read up on our David 8. He not only can extract and analyze foreign materials, but he has a combat chassis, ultra capable sensors (all five senses), and he may have been programmed (humans are programmed too - what do you think DNA is all about...) but he might have gone beyond those limiting instruction sets. As humans when did we become self-aware...? What enables us to ask those questions... some experts say that the simultaneous firing of our neurons resulted in new pathways and overall brain cellular structures to develop and be passed down through our DNA...
MVMNT
MemberOvomorphJul-04-2012 8:15 AMExperimenting on an experiement
That's how Fassbender puts [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8HtU5QQDRE]it in this video[/url]
darthmongo
MemberOvomorphJul-05-2012 4:34 PM@Prouty99: If you're going to cite Asimov's laws regarding David's programming, then what about Ash, leaving a potentially lethal organism incubate inside another human to "see what happens"?
Indy John
MemberOvomorphJul-05-2012 4:55 PMAs for trying harder..why not 'test a two or three subjects..knowing how critical it was for Weyland's potential life extension? Even David knew who the expendale crew members were...Just one test subject?
I am with you, Jock, on control of David. My question still is who..or what is pulling the strings, If not Weyland manipulating David's actions,,then it must be.....
I still suspect there is a backstory connecting the Engineers with Weyland..
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
Vyemm
MemberOvomorphSep-01-2012 8:21 AMIf you want, i also can tell you why Weyland wants to expose Holloway to the Black Liquid, i can tell you if the question is asked ! I don't want to spoile to much.
geopap
MemberOvomorphSep-01-2012 5:43 AM@Prouty99
Asimov's laws were followed precisely by the android, David8 did not turn against his father Peter Weyland. All the other crew members, including Vickers were perceived by him as simply "expendable". Remember the orders Ash had in Alien (1979)?
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
Hercules
MemberOvomorphSep-01-2012 6:54 AM[i]What happened to Asimovs laws ?[/i]
Since David wasn't made by U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men, Inc., the Laws might not have a bearing here.
Vyemm
MemberOvomorphSep-01-2012 8:00 AMI have the simple and real answer (coming from the writers) about that fact.
David speak with Peter Weyland after finding the Black Liquid. Weyland ask im to make an exposition to the Black Liqud. Weyland choose Holloway because Weyland suposed that just after the recent discovr, Holloway is drunking himself with champagne and will have a sexual contact with Shaw. So Weyland is the real responsable of that fact.
All my response is the Writers response, nothing more.
Vyemm
MemberOvomorphSep-01-2012 8:12 AMAnother quick fix (Please don't take me for a nutz cracker):
About the "try harder" response, it was only the response from David to Vickers, she has no right to know what ever Peter Weyland say or ask. "Try harder" is not at all what Weyland says to David.
BigDave
MemberDeaconSep-02-2012 7:39 AMWell best thing i can imagine is that David does not know what the stuff in the Urns is.
Weyland wants to find the Engineers so they can prolong his life.
David tells him he finds the Urns but he does not know what they contain or what they do.
Weyland wants David to work harder to get answers, he wants to know whats in the Urns, what does it do and what happens if it comes into contact with Humans.
David has no way of doing such a thing unless he is given permission, so when Holloway says he would do anything and everything to get his answers and connection between whats in the Temple and Creation.
That gives David a kind of permission to use Holloway to experiment on with the substance inside the Urns.
I dont think David knew at the time he infected Holloway that it would lead to the events that created the Trilobite Xeno Face Hugger.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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